Petition to restrict Maclean to daytime use only on May Long

MotorEd · Post by **MotorEd** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:17 am

Dragon997 wrote:.

Don’t you hate it when you go to Ghost and the signs say....Pedal bikes and horses, Have all Access.
But as a motorized OHV user you are only granted certain access.
Restrictions…. I say access for all, or Access for none!

Agreed, access for all. Unfortunately, 'ALL' includes the few groups that head into our riding areas and trash the place because they feel there are no rules. So, that being said, 'we' the responsible OHV users of our public lands want to send a message that basically 'we' dont want to be punished for the reckless acts of a few knuckle heads.

Dragon997 wrote:.

Isn’t that the same message we are saying. We are better than you.
DONT RESTRICT ACESSS! YOU ARE SETTING A DANGEROUS PRECIDENT!!!!!!!

It might seem a dangerous precident, however SDR knows there are individuals that can enjoy our back country, on the May Long weekend and NOT trash the area.....go check out the Porkies race site after the May long.....hello media, Ministers or anyone else that is skeptical of this. There are hundreds of riders and campers in that spot for the race on May long.

Dragon997 wrote:.If SRD can’t or won’t put up checkpoints, I suggest RMDR and SGC members, initiate it.

Great enthusiasm Dragon! not so practical IMHO though....yeah I see a world of trouble that we are not prepared or authorized to try and control. Hey I have huge sympathy for SRD on these long weekends.....who want to approach a bunch of drunken knuckle heads and tell em to shut it down or pick up their garbage.....sorry, but I wouldnt feel to safe in that role either.

Dragon997 wrote:.
But I can’t support taking away privileges we all own as Albertans.

I see your point, but I would be willing to limit access for all, in order to weed out the trouble makers. Limit my access for one long weekend so we dont have to spend several regular weekends cleaning things up.

Not sure what the solution is, but one thing for sure, if something doesnt change...we will all get shut out permanently.

Dragon997 · Post by **Dragon997** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:00 pm

That’s a very slippery slope; you will go down when you ask SRD or the government to start limiting access.

IT’S ENFORCEMENT!

Clubs have to get a TFA to have access in large groups to public land.
There is no reason a party should be held on public lands, if there is no TFA.

We have laws, enforce them.

Stop the parties before they get started.

My suggestion wasn’t to have the clubs wander into a rave or such.

That’s the RCMP’s job.

But we could set up a booth at the entrance to the riding areas, during the day to enlighten the great unwashed masses.

I’m really uncomfortable asking politicians to do the job of the RCMP or SRD.

but I would be willing to limit access for all, in order to weed out the trouble makers

Somewhere, I am sure; this same comment was said before the Ghost closures.

Johnathan

MotorEd · Post by **MotorEd** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:24 pm

Dragon997 wrote:

We have laws, enforce them.

This is exactly the problem....there is no enforcement. So they got some more SRD officers this year

it's still not enough.

Dragon997 wrote:
but I would be willing to limit access for all, in order to weed out the trouble makers
Somewhere, I am sure; this same comment was said before the Ghost closures.

Johnathan

Yes, but GAMP was a completely different deal. SRD and govt has recognized they made a HUGE mistake with GAMP. 2 years later they are still trying to figure out how to fix it. Bottom line GAMP didnt do what it was supposed to do. SRD and govt have taken a completly different approach with Mclean for this year....seems a VERY positive step in the right direction.

Now, honestly has SRD or govt done enough to educate the average Joe user out there about how to act when on public lands? No darn way.....and as a result we get the same bozos that live and die for the May long because it truely is a free for all. Agreed its not fair to punish all because of a few knuckle heads.....but there doesnt seem any other solution for the upcoming May long......guarenteed we all spend countless hours picking up the mess left behind. So limit access for one weekend to help prevent that? seems a no brainer.

Dragon997 · Post by **Dragon997** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:11 pm

MotorEd

Respectfully...I guess we will agree to disagree.

We are both passionate about OHVing, and we want to get to the same place, we are just taking different paths.

quote]SRD and govt has recognized they made a HUGE mistake with GAMP. 2 years later they are still trying to figure out how to fix it. Bottom line GAMP didnt do what it was supposed to do. SRD and govt have taken a completly different approach with Mclean for this year....seems a VERY positive step in the right direction.

[/quote]

Perhaps we need a different thread, but could you enlighten me or us on your comment.
I have seen no evidence that SRD or the government thinks it’s a mistake or are working to change it.
Unless you are an oil company, that is.

Also, what’s different about the plans they have for Mclean?

Now, honestly has SRD or govt done enough to educate the average Joe user out there about how to act when on public lands?

Lets give credit where it’s due, SRD did go to the MC shows in Edmonton and Calgary, and they do supply info packs at the dealerships.
If we choose to listen, well that’s a different story.
I know, I know we all went by the SRD trailer and told them our thoughts and stories.
But the "knuckleheads" that we are talking about in this thread, didn’t go within 20 feet of the SRD trailer.
So what can SRD do, except enforce the existing laws? That’s it.
Enforcement...not Closures.

Signing off,

Johnathan 606-0505

tkring · Post by **tkring** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:38 pm

Done

markvfr · Post by **markvfr** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:06 am

Dragon997 wrote:MotorEd

Respectfully...I guess we will agree to disagree.

We are both passionate about OHVing, and we want to get to the same place, we are just taking different paths.

Perhaps we need a different thread, but could you enlighten me or us on your comment.
I have seen no evidence that SRD or the government thinks it’s a mistake or are working to change it.
Unless you are an oil company, that is.

Also, what’s different about the plans they have for Mclean?

Lets give credit where it’s due, SRD did go to the MC shows in Edmonton and Calgary, and they do supply info packs at the dealerships.
If we choose to listen, well that’s a different story.
I know, I know we all went by the SRD trailer and told them our thoughts and stories.
But the "knuckleheads" that we are talking about in this thread, didn’t go within 20 feet of the SRD trailer.
So what can SRD do, except enforce the existing laws? That’s it.
Enforcement...not Closures.

Signing off,

Johnathan 606-0505

I don't know if you were at the last RMDR meeting, but all those issues were discussed. SRD DID recognize that they made a mistake wit GAMP and MacLean is a totally different story. For example, an individual who is a member of the RMDRA is in charge of mapping out and planning sustainable singletrack trails!!! That is a HUGE step for us.

And as for educating... thats BS Johnathan. Yes, they can put up a booth at a motorcycle show blah blah blah, but if they want to REALLY educate people they have to do more than that. For example, in order to register an OHV, an individual needs to pass a "Responsible Land Use" course, or something like that. That way its mandatory and in your face, instead of a lame booth that 95% of people at the bike show will blow by because there is a nice shiny new KTM model right next door.

Just my $.02

Dragon997 · Post by **Dragon997** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:05 am

Hello Mark

We are completely of the petition topic now, my apologies.

I don't know if you were at the last RMDR meeting, but all those issues were discussed. SRD DID recognize that they made a mistake wit GAMP

No, I wasn’t at the last meeting, but I wish I was. Are you implying that A SRD officer was at the last RMDR meeting and said GAMP is %$#^*! And we are working to change it? WOW, that would be big news.

MacLean is a totally different story. For example, an individual who is a member of the RMDRA is in charge of mapping out and planning sustainable singletrack trails!!! That is a HUGE step for us

MARK, THAT’S BIG NEWS ALSO!!!

Are any other clubs or associations involved with this plan, SGC, Quad Squad, and AOHVA?
If we were all to submit trails to SRD and the government, we would have a lot more trails, don’t you agree?
But on the other hand, that sounds like the Ghost plan, Hand over hundreds maybe thousands of KM of GPS single track, and then it falls into the abyss.

And as for educating... thats BS Johnathan. Yes, they can put up a booth at a motorcycle show blah blah blah

Again, I disagree, I will give SRD credit.
Also the Quad Squad was there promoting responsible land use, also.
Maybe the clubs need a leading role in responsible land use, at the MC shows.
Yes I know you are going to say, But we do!
I mean REALLY promote responsible land use at the MC shows and club meetings.

in order to register an OHV, an individual needs to pass a "Responsible Land Use" course

On the right track there, in my opinion.

But don’t you think you would just have more OHV users not registering their OHV vehicles.
That creates a whole new set of problems for SRD.

Im up to $0.03 now!

Johnathan

Post by **Rider Eh!** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:39 am

I'm a little uneducated about this whole matter, as I am still fairly new to the area.

My question is, is alchohol legal in Mclean? Why not ban it if it is (on the long weekends) and enforce it, as well as anounce it on the radio as they have for forest fire warnings? May help the few bad apples change thier minds about where to spend thier long weekends.

markvfr · Post by **markvfr** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:18 pm

Dragon997 wrote:On the right track there, in my opinion.

But don’t you think you would just have more OHV users not registering their OHV vehicles.
That creates a whole new set of problems for SRD.

Well, we're right back to square one aren't we... enforcement.

Dragon997 · Post by **Dragon997** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:00 pm

My question is, is alchohol legal in Mclean? Why not ban it if it is (on the long weekends) and enforce it

I am not the most qualified to answer this question, but I will take a stab at it.

It is illegal to have open liquor, outside of your campsite; I even heard from a reliable source that you can’t have liquor outside of your RV.
Seems simple, any booze, your busted, JUST ENFORCE THE LAWS.
After day riding, it’s even illegal to have a beer in the staging area.

Another solution to stop the partying is a FIRE BAN.
I believe there is one in place now, just extend it, past the Long weekend. Only fires in registered sites and steel fire rings.

Oh and one more point, to have any large gathering you need a Temporary Field Access a TFA.

No permit, No party
No fire, No party
No booze, no party

But its all just talk, without ENFORCEMENT!!!!

Johnathan

Post by **Spinalguy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:43 am

i briefly spoke with Teddy Morton.
There is NO MONEY for Enforcement. Albertans want the HEALTHCARE issue resolved and that leaves ZERO dollars for SRD.

(not from Teddy)
Also, SRD does not carry guns. They have not and will not approach groups partying. period.
They also act in an observatory state on Long Weekends, they do not enforce except if Alcohol related accidents occur.
Bottom line= no enforcement in past, present or future.
This is from years of personal involvement with the 'system'.

Zeal · Post by **Zeal** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:45 am

Johnathan,

I share your sentament about Enforcement, but don't really know how it can be practically executed?

Lets face facts, the SRD is not going to do anything about parties, and the RCMP are not going to show up.

There are an number of laws that are being broken at these roudy parties, so what do you suggest we do? So far the only suggestion that I have heard is to complain. But, that doesn't do anything.

Even though i don't like it, closing McLean during the May long weekend is a solution, and it is one that is realistic.

THere is another solution that I prefer. Every citizen has the right to enforce the laws of the country. So, lets put on our riding gear and do it. Seriously! I'll supply the zip ties. &&& was in the army, I am sure we could get some pointers on dealing with these roudies. Do you really think a bunch of drunk teens are any match for 50 of us. Not a chance! We can focus on the most problamatic offenses. Public drunkenness, under age drinking, and littering.

Johnathan, are you with me or what?

Zeal

DIRTTV · Post by **DIRTTV** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:42 pm

ok got an idea.

First everyone that owns a camcorder goes out and videotapes all that bad stuff that they
witness including face shots and license plates. the following week deliver the tapes to the
network tv stations as well as the RCMP.
Maybe if we are lucky the tv stations will air the footage and the RCMP will have no choice wether
to press charges or not. That way it would be a little safer for us all. (fyi.....do you remember the LA riots????
or do I have to say "Rodney King"??? It worked for those things why cant it work for us??? Has anyone
seen "Caught on tape?")

Zeal I am wondering if you hit your head with a tire iron at the tire changing demo????? you are
crazy. you should sell your 300 and ride a KX500 with the balls you got.

I dont know if this would work or not but i think its worth a try. I am trying to think of a way that
would leave no alternative but to enforce the areas we ride in.

Dragon997 · Post by **Dragon997** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:17 pm

Zeal

Your sarcasm isn’t lost on me.

Yeah, lets get baseball bats and pepper spray, just in case. And a couple of German Sheppard’s.

Ok, I get that SRD, wont enforce the laws.

Unless your an easy target.

They wont break up any parties, but I guarantee you they will be handing out tickets to Mom, Dad and the kids if they aren’t registered/insured correctly or go off a trail in the Ghost area.

I understand that SRD is stretched beyond their limit, but they have a responsibility to enforce the existing laws.

The RCMP are also capable and responsible for enforcing the laws in Mclean and the Ghost.

I live in Cochrane and the local newspaper publishes all the charges that the RCMP hand out after the long weekend, in the Ghost area. They are working in the area.

The RCMP and SRD have the ability to enforce the laws if they choose.

Again, ENFORCEMENT not CLOSURES.

Johnathan

Zeal · Post by **Zeal** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:58 pm

OK, sounds like a plan. If the place doesn't get closed on the may lone weekend, then I could help with the video work.

Should we pretend we are partiers, go in camo, or what? Humm, tempted to go under cover on this one, but I think I am still going to put on as much armour as possible in case things get out of control.

Johnathan, I am with you on the enforcement issue, I really am.

PS I thought the 300 did have more power than the KX 500!? Maybe I should get the 350 conversion kit.

Zeal