Land Use-The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

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Hammer
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Land Use-The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

Post by Hammer »

So while we are shouting and screaming at each other we sound like a bunch of seal hunters frustrated that the bad press generated by a few radical environmentalists. We could of predicted with 100% certainty that news of yet another long-weekend disaster would reach the general population and we'd all (OHV users) get painted with the same brush as the drunken destroyers. With few exceptions we are behaving like a bunch of VICTIMS instead of focusing on solutions to the bad publicity generated by under-eductated users and the weekend partiers that trash our wilderness.

Distruction of Canadian wilderness is and has been a hot topic for the past 20 years, whether you are in the OHV business, mining, oil, land development and any other activity that disrupts natural habitat. All of these industries face the same problems. When I was involved in the proposed development of Mountain Park south of Hinton (along the ultra sensitve Eastern Slopes) we had the smartest minds in the country around the table and still, a multi-million dollar project ready to pump 20 years of cash into the Edson and Hinton community was brought to a stand-still. The main partner in the project, Cardinal River Coals, long considered one of the most environmentally responsible mining companies in the world still couldn't stop a handful of radical environmentalists who were dialed into the media and thus the general public. It's the media that renders all of us, including SRD, powerless.

On another project I was part of the design TEAM that pushed forward the BHP Ekati diamond mine north of Yellowknife. On permafrost for sh*t sakes! Native issues galore, waste management, an air field, 20 months of fuel and chemical storage, bonds for the assurance that reclamation plans would be carried out and one heck of a public relations plan. This mine was successful and has moved ahead like gangbusters. Better planning, promotion and stakeholder environment than the naysayers could muster. And not to forget the power of the almighty $$$ and promise of local employment.

The moral of the stories...even the best laid plans can fail while others succeed. Based on the thin information on these forums I don't see us making any ground towards success in fact it looks like we are headed in the direction that killed the Mountain Park mine development.

Not unlike the mining projects we have to appreciate that the SRD and politicians are on the hook, held accountable by the general public which is 99.999% non-OHV users. So what's the answer? Whining, snivelling and fighting amoungst each other isn't going to get us anywhere. From someone pretty new to OHV use I have a few observations. You don't have to agree with me, just my thoughts from 20 years of resource development.

1. From the material I've seen from the Eastern USA they really seem to have thier sh*t together. Trail stewartship, building and operating manuals, signage and forms of enforcement. Check out some of the designs to stiffen up trail crossing in boggy areas, planning for reducing errosion, blocking trails that are at the end of thier useful life, trail ownership/stewartship etc.

2. Hitching up to initiatives like what Diamond Dave undertook with the bridges...outstanding!!! Great newspaper story. Post long-weekend cleanup is a noble effort but it might, if not properly projected in the media, look like we are cleaning up after ourselves. Why not make those responsible, accountable through $$ deposites on camp areas so if they don't clean up SRD can hire someone.

3. Restricting free camping and policing the radicals that give OHV users a bad name. There is no simple answer to this one...but somewhere down the rabbit hole is an answer.

4. Building parks that are specifically designed for different types of OHV equipment and then applying user fees and holding clubs accountable. Its like using a snowboard park for an event. You have to have a club membership or you're not insured against damage and public liability.

5. Continuing the excellent work organized by guys like Dylan, Darren and lots of others in multiple clubs around trail cleaning. Thanks for the reminder Cladoo. This stuff is new-worthy.

And on it goes. I don't for a minute pretend that solving this problem is simple. I'd like to have a better idea as to where we are at....kind of like "current state/future state planning. I think we have a lot to learn from our friends to the south who have a big head start on us free ranging Canadians. They appear to be better organized, better financed and have garnered a lot of federal funding to keep their areas managed and open. Albeit they have a much larger population we are at a point where we need to learn a few tricks. For us, I fear the honeymoon is over. We have to change our approach or we are going to continue to be stuck in slow moving government processes and will remain frustrated and angry after every long weekend and subsequent closure.

While we don't have the mega-bucks of oil, lumber and mining companies to hire the best consultants and public relations firms if we don't follow study some of their examples we are going to be faced with closures. Why? We aren't giving our bureaucrats and politicians solutions that they can sell to their constituents. I have an idea on how to grease the wheel of government...thats a trade secret left for a meeting of the minds. Not on a forum.

I want more then anything to keep single track open. It is pretty tough when you see so much random distruction left by non-regulated users. Its pretty obvious that if you want to show some drama its not the hidden trail-head created by a single track but the wide swath taken by larger vehicles or by weekend drunks. Its not the majority of us in clubs who try to get out a couple of times a week. We RESPECT OUR LAND because we don't want to loose the priviledge...that's right, priviledge...not right to these areas of pristeen wilderness. For heaven's sake, Simon took us into Voodo Trees where it would have been impossible for someone who didn't know exactly where to enter to ever know there was a trail. That's one of the main reasons I have so much trouble trying to find the single track with my son or leading other riders. The trail-heads are so well hidden when travelling at speed. The media doesn't see this part of the equation. They stop at the mud bogs. That's all they need.

So what am I going to do? I'm going to dust off my notes from a dozen years of leading successful environmental planning for explosives plants, remote chemical plants and open pit mines to see how we can thread a plan together that considers the reclamation of areas destroyed by over-use, planning for design, sustainment, maintenance and reclamation of new trails...a cradle to grave approach on how to birth and retire trails. And maybe, just maybe we can rally some of the energy used to bash the various groups (and each other) into a collective effort, the nucleus of which I get the sense of from postive threads of collaboration and concensus from the various organizations. For starters I don't think anyone should be allowed into a FLUZ or any other area if they are not a member of an organization that supports responsible use. Call me militant, this is a time of war on abusers and random drunks that make the news.

Closing this thread I'd like to thank all of you who have put forth effort, no matter how effective, into trying to work with SRD and our Ministries. It's easy to sit on the bench and watch the game as many of us do. Now its time to empty the bleachers....everyone on the ice. Yes it could get a bit bloody...so what! We're used to it from the crazy *** things we do on two wheels.

I'd like to get a meeting with the guys that are working together and individually, if you don't already have a forum...in my back yard, as soon as we can. It's going to be a long winter and a dry 2008 if we don't get better organized and come up with solutions that are both saleable and financable.

My respect to all of you, and yes, we will get lots of riding in too! Although it might be on a Harley instead :D
Gord McDonald
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Last edited by Hammer on Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cladoo »

Well put Gord! This issue won't be solved by mudslinging.(no pun intended). There are too many personality clashes about this here on this forum so I usually try to stay out of it. I find it hard to believe that we will find a solution soon also. Most users just want to go out and ride, not pitch in and help. Look at the cleanup at Maclean this year, the first weekend there were about 65 volunteers, the following weekend there were about 35, and some were there for both! How many people have gone out since to clear trail? How many have been out riding? According to Dylan we had only cleared about a third of the trails. Do we really think that we can organize enough riders to tackle the trails like the Americans do? I am skeptical. However if we want to continue to ride we must be proactive.
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gord

Post by DIRTTV »

Gord you have my attention. Thank you for your comments. They don't go unoticed. I am glad you have made this post and it was my my intent to get some responses that nobody would ever get to hear. Sometimes a person has to raise some eyebrows in order to get others motivated.

Thanks,

Doug

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Post by Hammer »

Right on Doug! We are taking way to soft an approach to these issues and sometimes you have to throw a rock to get a splash. Your comments sure got me thinking. I now ponder as to whether we should try to save the planet, being all OHV users, or just protect our two-wheel activities as there are significant differences in thier respective impacts and probability of successful outcomes. Still thinking....
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good.bad & ugly

Post by thumper-darryl »

Good post Gord. I can be avsilable for a get together, and with about 10 years of land use experience, can answer questions for hours.
Hammers response is very accurate.
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Post by Hammer »

I'll take you up on it sometime soon Daryll :cheers:
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Post by crazy2wheeler »

Hammer wrote:I'll take you up on it sometime soon Daryll :cheers:
I'd very much appreciate being able to be present at that!

(and think it may benefit the club as well)

D.
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meet

Post by thumper-darryl »

Since both you and Doug are land reps for the club, it is a no brainer.
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Post by TJ54 »

This is why I don't understand the division between 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers. I totally agree with everything hammer had to say at the top of this page, As would nearly everyone with the CJA.
I understand the issues with ruts on the trails we run with our jeeps, I have ridden a bike too. The two wheelers seem to prefer the single track, we have no interest in single track.
Yes, I absolutely have issues with some comments made in the last few days by a couple of your members, that's ok, life would be boring if we all agreed.

But, the real reason I am here.
As a member of the executive of the CJA, I am offering my help to clean up some of your single track, we have chain saws, we have jeeps to carry extra fuel and tools. We have manpower. We have motivation to open up more of the single track to make more room for all the users at Maclean.
If you would like help at your next clean-up/trail repair just send me an email or pm at CJA and I will see what we can do.
We are having our annual Show and shine this saturday at Boomtown, Macleod X Southland, come on by and say hi.

Ian

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Post by crazy2wheeler »

TJ54 wrote:This is why I don't understand the division between 4 wheelers and 2 wheelers. I totally agree with everything hammer had to say at the top of this page, As would nearly everyone with the CJA.
I understand the issues with ruts on the trails we run with our jeeps, I have ridden a bike too. The two wheelers seem to prefer the single track, we have no interest in single track.
Yes, I absolutely have issues with some comments made in the last few days by a couple of your members, that's ok, life would be boring if we all agreed.

But, the real reason I am here.
As a member of the executive of the CJA, I am offering my help to clean up some of your single track, we have chain saws, we have jeeps to carry extra fuel and tools. We have manpower. We have motivation to open up more of the single track to make more room for all the users at Maclean.
If you would like help at your next clean-up/trail repair just send me an email or pm at CJA and I will see what we can do.
We are having our annual Show and shine this saturday at Boomtown, Macleod X Southland, come on by and say hi.

Ian
Wow Ian - that is fantastic. I think this is the first time I have seen one group volunteer to do work for another group which really is primarily for the other's benefit! That really is great of you to offer. I hope we are able to take you up on that, and build a relationship where we reciprocate back and forth.

Cheers! :banana:

Derek Radomski
2007 Land Advocacy Director, RMDRA
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Post by Hammer »

I look forward to learning more about how the 4wd guys are managing their areas. I get the sense that a partnership with this group will be important. What about quads? I know there is a lot of organization in the Crowsnest and up west of Caroline because I've ridden their trails on the way to the single-track. Rode MacLean tonight with Ian, Dallas and Scott. We had a ball and saw lots of evidence of new diversions around downed trees in fact on Cloud 9 the new trail is being cut by Quads, one of them must have a blade.

A good exercise would be to get together with the CJA and ride/drive areas where we know we need to do some work. If we could get together for a demonstration of repair and reclamation that could be powerful for the Clubs and regulators. Hmmm, something to think about. From Ian's post its pretty obvious that they are extending their hand. Again, I am new to the process and probably re-hashing issues that groups have already successfuly addressed. My apologies for this. A meeting will give me a much clearer picture of our "Current State" and the inititative that are taking us into the future. I would be happy as the least educated to facilitate. This is what I do for a living and have a number of tools and rules that would get us a defined outcome by the end of the meeting. We could hold it in our Board Room at Calgary Technologies, 3553-31st Street NW. I can put 40 people seated at the table and have all the electronics, whiteboards, Internet access, flip charts etc. I am thinking that we could cover a lot of ground on a week night or two. \

There will be a strong facilitation so that we end having had a productive meeting. I am pretty much available any evening. Weekends are a bit more difficult since most of us are out on the trails or camping. PM me your interest and phone numbers and I'll get the date(s) organized.

Gord
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P.S. Be prepared for focused collaboration.
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Post by DirtGirl »

Some of you have maybe not been around long enough to know this but bikes and 4x4 people have worked together tonnes in the past to do clean ups and maintenance on trails. Infact the AOHVA was founded by bike guys right here in Calgary, they got tired of beating their heads. The Aurs also had several biked guys on its founding board too. While there have never been as many bikers involved in the clean up days (at Waiparous especially) there have been bikers involved!

I don't think the previous posts were about working together to clear trails and do clean ups. The point was that by trying to "stand united" as OHV users are we shooting ourselves in the foot as it is a clear fact that some vehicles do way more damage than others and ours being the least amount.

Not wanting to ruffle any feathers. But like Darryl I have been somewhat involved in the land issues for a very very long time (early to mid 80's) and there is a long history of head butting between users and with the gov't.
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Post by bnine »

I have worked on clean ups and trail projects with many bike users in the past. You are absolutely right that there is nothing new there.

I think what is new is public figures attemping to pit user groups against eachother, pointing fingers at one individual in an attemp to avoid attention to themselves.

Without a doubt the 4x4 users have some bad or irresponsible seeds. As does every group that uses the back country.

In no way would I expect any user group to start handling the problems of another. That is definately our own housecleaning that needs to be taken care of.

I dont see anyone being shot in the foot here.

We have seen a lot of backstabbing, but users shooting themselves in the foot by supporting other users? No.

Gamp tore into everyone almost equally, with a marginal favor to the quad group, but still nothing to write home about.

Sustainable programs can be put together without finger pointing. Period.

In the end, we all have the same goal, and passion, and there is more then enough room in this province for all of us.

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