Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

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WRocks
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Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby WRocks » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:06 pm

Check out this link, also attached the file in case the link goes down.

http://cpaws-southernalberta.org/upload/CMP_-_EWG_Science_Summary_Oct._26,_2016_(updated_Dec._1,_2016).pdf

The Ecological Working Group (EWG) was convened by AEP in August 2016 and by late October had the "science" all gathered and summarized.
Looks like all our adversaries had a seat at the table long before the OHV community even knew what was happening.
I am hearing this is the scientific playbook the AEP Minister and her department are working from.

Has all my favorites (Lorne Fitch, Global Forest Watch, CPAWS, etc.) but not a single thing generated by AEP itself.
Expect more of this, as the process moves up the Eastern Slopes.
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CMP_-_EWG_Science_Summary_Oct._26,_2016_(updated_Dec._1,_2016).pdf
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Last edited by dirtyboy on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Added [url] code to URL Link
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Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby dirtyboy » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:28 pm

Very cool. Thank you

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby AJRJ » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:41 am

Quite possibly my favorite quote yet:

Vertebrates exhibit bilateral symmetry in that our left and right sides are reflections of each other. A and
high performing individuals within a population whereas high measures of asymmetry are associated
with lower quality individuals. Asymmetry accumulates during development in stressful conditions.
Here, the authors measure fluctuating asymmetry in samples of western fence lizards.
For three locations separated by at least 45km, the authors paired a local OHV site with a nearby
(<7.5km) non-OHV site with matching vegetation characteristics. At least 55 individuals were captured
and photographed at each site and they measured scales on both sides of the head to assess
asymmetry.


This is who we're up against folks, and their minds are made up.

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby Hooligan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:58 pm

AJRJ wrote:Quite possibly my favorite quote yet:

Vertebrates exhibit bilateral symmetry in that our left and right sides are reflections of each other. A and
high performing individuals within a population whereas high measures of asymmetry are associated
with lower quality individuals. Asymmetry accumulates during development in stressful conditions.
Here, the authors measure fluctuating asymmetry in samples of western fence lizards.
For three locations separated by at least 45km, the authors paired a local OHV site with a nearby
(<7.5km) non-OHV site with matching vegetation characteristics. At least 55 individuals were captured
and photographed at each site and they measured scales on both sides of the head to assess
asymmetry.


This is who we're up against folks, and their minds are made up.


This sounds like an attempt to overwhelm the uninformed with gobbledy gook. I understand what they are discussing but, at least in this quote, there is no attempt to describe or quantify what an "OHV site" is or how much area or percentage of area it encompasses or even how much use it gets. For example, the gravel pit in McLean is probably not a great spot for animals to live but the area around Dylans Diggs is entirely different because the single track takes up a teeny tiny proportion of the land and very few people go down that trail. Treating remote single track the same as a mud bog area is patently ridiculous.

There is also zero discussion about how bilateral symmetry affects populations and survivability. For example, in humans, a high level of bilateral symmetry is most often associated with beauty. However nobody has ever suggested that ugly people don't reproduce as well as supermodels. Thus, in the case of humans, bilateral symmetry is irrelevant.

The quote above makes a number of assumptions or statements and makes no effort to justify those other than that OHVs are bad.

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby Brass » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:35 pm

Can the OHV clubs hire an environmental company to review the report and comment on it. Then perhaps have the results of that professional review posted in the media and ask the minister to comment.
The voices are back. Awesome!

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby Waxy » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:34 pm

This is really pretty scary and pathetic stuff.

It's 32 pages of titles and references from organizations with an obvious bias in data interpretation, and made even worse with nothing but cherry picked quotes that serve their agenda. When you quote 2 paragraphs, 50 pages apart, from a 300+ page paper, that should set off alarm bells for anyone, let alone those familiar with these types of academic papers. Even at that, almost half of their cherry picked quotes don't even support their assertions or are inconclusive.

This is the "science" that is being used to ban Albertans from accessing public lands. Shameful really...

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby MotorEd » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:14 am

Game was rigged absolutely and the ball is now rolling with some serious momentum against OHV use

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-new ... ists-group

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350scott
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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby 350scott » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:40 pm

So can everyone with a science degree get together and sign an open letter supporting responsible OHV use? I've got a Bachelor or Applied Science in Water Resources, and I can't be the only responsible OHV user with a similar education.
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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby AJRJ » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:32 pm

350scott wrote:So can everyone with a science degree get together and sign an open letter supporting responsible OHV use? I've got a Bachelor or Applied Science in Water Resources, and I can't be the only responsible OHV user with a similar education.


But you are "unique" :thumbsup:

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby JohnE » Mon May 01, 2017 10:59 am

Studies of the Appalachia, California and Arkansas might be interesting, but to then apply it to the Castle and call it "science" is a misrepresentation. I don't see anything that shows there was any scientific study of the effects of OHV use in the Castle, just community surveys.

It's not science - it's politics being paraded as science. When government buys into that behavior, the result is poor regulation.

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby Hooligan » Mon May 01, 2017 8:27 pm

350scott wrote:So can everyone with a science degree get together and sign an open letter supporting responsible OHV use? I've got a Bachelor or Applied Science in Water Resources, and I can't be the only responsible OHV user with a similar education.


If Bill Nye, who only has a Bachelor of Engineering, can wear "the science guy" moniker then there are an awful lot of us who also qualify as "science guys". I've got a BSc, which is an actual science degree compared to Bill Nye's degree. :lol:



JohnE wrote:It's not science - it's politics being paraded as science. When government buys into that behavior, the result is poor regulation.


The govt went in to this with a preconceived notion and a specific goal. Then they went looking for "science" that would back up their end game.

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Re: Finally the science, but the game was rigged...

Postby JohnE » Wed May 03, 2017 7:57 am

Speaking of pre-conceived notions, how about the 57 scientists who signed the public letter, not one of whom probably understands how any potential environmental effects (if there are any material effects in the Castle) can be mitigated through sustainable trail systems

Scientists using their public credibility to make a political statement against conservation is a sad state of affairs

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