Christini AWD 530 EXC build

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

33 hours and its apart AGAIN. :mad:

Just got through the 30hr KTM service (go over, plug, valves, oils and filters), a few airbox deep fords on the dualsport ride, but wheel bearings looked great, AWD turned nice.

Then on the weekend ride at Porky's the bike developed stiction in the AWD, esp. reversing it and then creaking when working the bars lock to lock, then I think the torque limiting clutch started slipping under load (chattering and no power x-fer). Rode the remainder in 1WD.

Pulled the transfer case out to get at the clutch, found a split friction. Cannot test the 42lb-ft torque threshold yet, need to fabricate tools for that, got the basket holder fabbed but the output shaft is some 7 spline 16mm thing. Moisture exposure issues seem evident.
AWDclutch.JPG
Transfer case guts look good and spin freely, external o-ring chain seems a bit tight might ATF wash it, head tube gears look good, now that the clutch is out the front turns more readily but still has what I feel is higher than normal stiction (could be the spiral gear cut not readily turning in reverse?), but the outright binding and creaking is gone.

Call in to Christini tech too, gonna tear the lowers and maybe the triple apart too. I knew there would be teething issues but considering I use it part time, and have kept up on the prescribed maintenance (inspect, lube driveshafts and chain) I'm a bit miffed right now.

Oh and it's losing crankcase oil, about 100-150 ml per 7 hours (or using it, but plug looks good though) - thinking the factory vacuum to PCV vent might have to change and be routed to the airbox.

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

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Dobi
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Dobi »

I think you may have found the source of the noise......

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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Bark »

Those bits don't look ultra healthy from the pics. What's the verdict? Are they pooched?

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

TBD. My PO'ed level is subsiding.

My theory:

- water is entering the dropout assemblies, left side failed suddenly (although the seal failure and moisture entry were occuring for some time), right side o-rings is in place but leaking and a support bearing failure is imminent
- the sealing system consists of double lip grease seals at the pinion against a hardened surface, orings for the axle (static), and orings for the reciprocating drive plate face against bare aluminum
- the oring is suitable for a static seal, but for a rotating one in our conditions they are not durable enough, combine that with the notorious fork seal eating clay we have, and early failure is going to occur
- left side dropout drive plate sealing o-ring was MIA (likely destroyed), the other wore flush, and support bearing grenaded and outer steel race spun in slip fit machine aluminum pocket
- the debris went through the ring and pinion, cracking teeth and embedding, and bearing debris and/or clay also scored the sealing faces
- the ring and pinion jamming with ball bearings going through it caused the clutch to pop and crack (iirc this occured violently on a hill climb), and also caused the headset spider gearset to lock up and possibly is why I smoked a tree (bars would not turn freely)

Good news:
- the left dropout housing cleaned up OK (filing nicks, emery cloth, 3m)
- Christini is warranty overnighting an overhaul kit for both lowers, and the clutch friction bits and a shaft to set torque
- all the remaining friction in the system is gone with the dropouts removed
- I am confident I can reassemble this :P, and I am learning how to reman the whole system, although I expected this was more of a winter, in front of the TV, after then end of a season thing :thinking:
- the system gives you some friction feedback through the bars and drive system warning of degradation, maybe just not enough notice if failure is occuring rapidly
- in a failure, switching AWD out generally lets you get going, excepting the ring and pinion in the dropout impacting the steering; hard to explain, but even if its disengaged at the transfer case the other side R&P have to rotate freely to allow steering, but I suspect the action of the one way clutch in the front hub can impede this, I could turn right fine but left was a problem (smoked tree on right side of left turn)

Not so sure of:
- was told to file the ring and pinion and run it with the chips (still has 3 tooth contact so strong enough), got it going smooth after working them with my mini fileset so aside from appearance should be ok
- the drive plate seal surface scoring - will buff with a 3M pad hope not to open clearances
- if either doesn't last I'll demand new replacements
- finding a lot of dry grease seals and voids free of packing grease, possible assembly error (wasn't me I grease the sludge out of anything I assemble), now have been through it all, s/b ok
- need to look in front axle hub see if those orings are holding, there no evidence of water through axle seal and bearing inspection
- dualsport durability, baja run, the the main reason I bought the 6 speed 530, prolly fine if reman'd and grease packed before and run in 1wd most of time, carry spare o-rings

Other thoughts on improvement:
- more frequent inspection (yay frick not complicated but more time)
- oilcan of ATF or something for lubing the driveplate seals every ride, maybe chain lube
- I am looking for sealing o-rings with better durometer ratings (buna-N or polyeurethane)
- ordering new drive/seal plates and having them smooth anodized
- this is the big one: adding a grease fitting as there is a machined passage almost all the way to the outside of the dropout assembly, might require drilling the ring gear plate to get the grease to the problem o-rings though, have to look closer PACK THAT MOFO AFTER EVERY RIDE
- bearings and seals can be ordered locally, but Christini air overnight to my office works too

Lemons, lemonade: Removal of parts to do this troubleshooting and service lets me install the remote choke (transfer case out) and new full length forkskins anyhow.
Carb seems to work well, good economy, no bog, plug a bit black so leaving it alone.
AWD shifts were getting problematic, calbe routing was an issue but the bigger cause is likely the system being jammed up with bearing bits!

"SERENITY NOW" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4
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AJRJ
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by AJRJ »

Fluidseal on 58 Ave SE either will have or can get/make any o ring or seal you would require. We routinely use them to increase seal life on some of our high wear applications.

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Right on, thanks! :cheers:

Edit: I owe you a cold one; just called Fluidseal and the o-ring guy has heard of Christini AWD, and is stoked to source some polyurethane orings for me! :applause:

And the Christini reman parts just arrived, so I have extra new ones to take down to them to measure (and improve upon). :thumbsup:

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

:read:

Dropouts overhauled and reinstalled. Nicked a cover plate sealing lip with the bearing driver, just like the manual warned me about. Finesse required. :blush:
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Calibrating the torque limiting clutch with new frictions to ~40 ftlbs, should be 42 but it is hard to get consistent. Might back it off and scrub the frictions in a few times, maybe put the air ratchet or impact on it, spun at ~25 before, could have just snugged it down more, but replaced the split friction. Disassembly showed it had been releasing a lot, makes sense. :crazy: This might need more frequent inspection, although never had an issue with it until the dropout bound up.
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Driveshaft custom machined to a 15mm 6point socket (lol used a flannel wearing, toothless red neck file, nice work profanity filter :lol: ) to make the clutch output adapter, basket holder is just some scrap bar stock ground flat to fit the basket input.
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Some other work to do, like add the remote choke, and a quick inspection of the front hub o-rings, but now just reassembly, and ATF wash the external oring drive chain, a bit snug for my liking.

Kinda stoked now to get it back out.

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AJRJ
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by AJRJ »

malcolmzilla wrote:Right on, thanks! :cheers:

Edit: I owe you a cold one; just called Fluidseal and the o-ring guy has heard of Christini AWD, and is stoked to source some polyurethane orings for me! :applause:

And the Christini reman parts just arrived, so I have extra new ones to take down to them to measure (and improve upon). :thumbsup:
No problem. :thumbsup:

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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by dirtyboy »

malcolmzilla wrote: nice work profanity filter :lol:
If you had called it a flat file we wouldn't be having this conversation. :D

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Technically, it was a b_stard file! :lol:

On a related note, I don''t think my grease nipple plan will work, the ring gear carrier section shoulder is very narrow; to get a passage through the drive plate seals would involve drilling the ring gear area, removing the seals from the support bearing, and indexing it all at lube time. Dubiously effective at best. :thinking:

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Back together, clutch breaks at 42 ftlbs, holds at 40.

Turns nicely, still makes a bit of ticking noise, a bit slower than the front driveshafts turn at; wondering if the ring and pinion damage is to blame? Will find out when the new ones arrive.

Engages and disengages nicely now (did booger the AWD switch open detent in all of this so will order one grr, ziptied for open/disengaged, always classy Malcolm :blush: ).

Hub o-rings are labelled incorrectly in manual, they are about a 2"x.070 (2.022 centerline diameter), as opposed to the drive flange ones at 1.75x.070. Will find them locally and get some poly's on the way. Some water evidence in the sprags on one side, cleaned, repacked. So add that to the list for more frequent inspection. 2 sets of wheel bearings, smaller inner ones turn when the sprags are locked, larger outer sets when free wheeling, bigger set should provide more longevity if I can keep the water out.

External 420 0-ring chain holding up well.

All in all, not the spaceshuttle; but a very neat engineering feat, just a lot of mechanisms at work.

Remote choke didnt happen - the cable barrel insert was too large, will hit up a bike shop see if I can get a smaller barrel. I did get the throttle wheel cover back on, after generously relieving it a bit. Header heat wrap needed the shock removed, so passed on that. Carb bowl heat soak hasn't been an issue so far (coolant overheating has however).

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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Swany's last night, 50% after dark.

AWD is back to awesome. :D

Also, AC lights bring the suck (like wee your riding shorts suck) when you stall, they go out and it's pitch black, still sliding down Swany's ledges with now unseen trees and a dropoff the the left. I think my sphincter may finally start to relax next week. PMXTEC 65W halogen light completely hogs the stock stators output, so I'll have to get on the Trailtech install (thanks Bark :thumbsup:).

It's a bear to hot start (as in will not), will mess with fuel screw, valves are good. Esp. when kicking past exhaustion as your battery is flat from the weak stator. Shorai on order.

Overheats just looking at single track, so also have the fan kit onhand.

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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by cedric »

malcolmzilla wrote:Shorai on order.
Can I ask where you ordered this? My starter was moving pretty slowly last night, I think a new battery is in my future, and it will definitely be one of the new lithium style batteries.

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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Bark »

malcolmzilla wrote:Overheats just looking at single track, so also have the fan kit onhand.
I think you'll like the fan then. My 530 never boiled over once in +100hrs of riding. I had installed the fan before day 1.

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