Christini AWD 530 EXC build

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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Shibby! »

Yea, I'd be curious to know those two things.

1) Ratio of the front to rear wheel speed
2) How the final gearing affects this. Ie, you gear the bike down (rear wheel), the front wheel now spins faster when it engages. I would think closing that gab would help in ugly situations rather then having a spinning/sliding rear and a gripping front, I'd sooner have the rear almost gripping and the front hooking up. I assume to really fine tune this you'd have to change the front gear ratio on the chain.

Really surprised Christini doesn't have info on this.
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Pop by and try it out. I just want to ensure the front is driven slower than the rear still (pretty confident, can't imagine the extreme enduro test riders running a 15/45 :nworthy: ), then ride the mofo somewhere greasy/rooty/rocky to see the difference. So far the front engagement has been seamless in my informal alley and concrete step testing, it just pulls with little to no slip. My expectation is this helps me reduce my tourette's, err, fatigue level, following you goat trail buggers around :lol:
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Just checked. With 13/52 the front wheel is driven at about 2/3 the rate of the rear. Accounting for circumference still likely less than 80%.
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Took it to Maclean today. 2 hours of bogs, new loose runoff rocks, snow, wet logs and roots and general nastiness, it performed quite well, my companions were on studs. Left the DOT Metzlers on so a bit squirrelly.

There were quite a few spots I'm sure if I were on the KLX I wouldn't have made it. I did stick it bad enough once to hear the torque limiting clutch let go, but I was trying lol. Turned the AWD off a few times only to have the rear step out all over and lose all drive. If you can keep the front down it climbs like a mofo. Steep loose restarts happen easily. Logs can often be bumped over nice and slow. You do have to be aggressive to get the front turning, rear has to be spinning.

As far as the rest of the bike, well the suspension, brakes and overall feel clearly eclipse the KLX. Wondering if a 400 would have been a better choice, regardless of ignition mapping this thing yards my arms off and is entirely too much on the singletrack. The torque is amazing, can run pretty much idling along in 2nd. When you open it up it's nuts (for me).

The wider tank was bothering me at first, but it does mean that I kind of have to grip it with my calves so it might be a benefit. Rest of the ergos seem ok for me as far a bar height and forward position, can get forward on the tank and squat/stand on climbs. Way lighter to pick up after it lays down for a rest too. ;)

Deep water crossings, and the hubs in the mud a few times so going to pull em apart and have a lookieloo.
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

As expected, the secondary chain took mud and grass right up to the gearbox, its a 420 non o-ring so I'll remove it and give it a ATF soak and grease. There is a grease seal for the gearbox innards, but the cover has the input retainer bearing with no seal so will have to keep an eye on that. Didn't get to the hub yet. Ordering the o-ring sealed axle spacers for the rear. The front has no spacers, the wheel hub is engaged by the outer drive flange and the axle is sealed by a double lip seal, o-ring on the outer for the freewheel action. The outer drive hubs I didn't look close, think it uses o-rings on the case and axle side. The manual says "inspect and replace only if making excessive noise or damaged". :lol: I'll order a wheel bearing and seal set, and perhaps the hub o-rings and the lower fork case service set, and a cover bearing, just in case...

Before a wash:
may29.JPG
Behind the cover after a wash:
dirtybox.JPG
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Shibby! »

I'd be tempted to increase/decrease sprocket size to get the front more closely matched to the rear speed, but then again what do I know. I just figure it woudl track a hell of a lot better if the rear wasn't spinning like crazy only to gain that extra grip from the front. With it at like 90-93%, it would still be free wheeling most of the time, but that front would hook up quick and the rear would still be somewhat stable or at least manageable.

Can you simply switch out the top sproket to something smaller? Does that system have a means of tensioning the chain if changed?

Andreas and my ride yesterday involved a bit of wheel spin..... =) That 650's power is addictive...

I'll have to get by some day to check it out. Once I'm done with your tap set (maybe tonight) we'll have to plan something out.
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

I'm not so worried about the math anymore, it sure works :D, so just going to keep it maintained and ready to run. Trying to get back out Friday afternoon, or on the weekend.
Come see how this compares to the 650. The AWD might make me lazy(ier), but perhaps not, as mentioned you have to get on it for the front to become of use. :lol:
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

No evidence of water in the front hub, no spacers so seals well. Rear factory KTM not so much, have a set of o-ringed spacers coming. Christini is sending me a hub, chain and lower fork service kit and a remote choke. :applause:

While the wheels are off might as well make the leap to the Tubliss, hoping no leakdowns :buttkick: , gonna run Stan's sealant.

Question: Do you guys ever bust the brake and shift pedals?

Putting together my spares kit and was thinking of adding a c/s seal, brake and clutch levers, and shift and brake pedal? Have a plug, air filter and oil filter, fork seals.

Speaking of which does anyone run 20W50 or 10W40 instead of the $80 a gallon 10W50?
Does anyone sell a torx elimination hardware kit?

Thanks.
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by axel99 »

Ahhhh...you ask for advice on engine oil, almost as popular a topic as jetting. I am running shell rotella T6.
It meets JASO MA specifications. Don't remember what I paid but it wasn't $80 for 4L. Lots of opinions and few hard facts on this topic. I tend to change my oil often, not because of oil breakdown but to remove any contamination (water, clutch wear). Usually Auto Value by cycle works carries T6 and the odd time I have found it at crappy tire.
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Re: Rotella, You can find the 5w40 full synthetic at Walmart too, I run it in the KLX. We ran Amsoil 10w40 and 0w40 in Baja, I think I'll give that a try since I have a gallon kicking. the 10w50 overall is not a big expense but no reason for it to be as much as it is? :confused:

Tire change and Tubliss last night, thanks Mark for the Tubliss tutelage! :thumbsup: Sorry about your finger.

908RR's, meaty, and DOT. Threw in Stan's sealant in the tire void just in case theres any bead or beadlock anomalies, or a small puncture its supposed to be the ticket. Bit of a learning curve on Tubliss, need to procure a trail patch kit (plugs), spare high pressure bladders, and see if my hand pump or CO2 cartridges can generate 110 psi. No problems with the garage compressor or my CO2 jug in the truck doing that.

Recheck the pressures later for leaks, balance and maybe drop in a few more oz of Stan's, grease the seals, install the new o-ringed rear spacers and remount.

Cycleworks cookie monster has some spare levers and such coming in. :D

Who wants to ride Sunday? :D
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

New bike looks old now. :crybaby:
June5.JPG
Ok, the 908 (rear) was not a good choice for the slime at Maclean, chunky and drove forward well enough, but no lateral traction. Chopping the throttle in 2WD, like going into a greasy corner, almost always resulted in a low side, think as the front stopped "pulling" and then the rear took all the drive "pushing" load, it went sideways instead of forward... That said the AWD worked well in the bogs, loose rocks, log crossings, and difficult "restarts"... :blush: Sick of the MUD. :crazy: I didn't get the death wobbles folk wrote about the 908 front, at least up to 90 kmph. Tubliss let me air down to 6 front 4 rear, which helped the 908's in the gunk and logs a bit. Also backed out some compression from the forks and a bit out from the rear and more rebound. Need to set sag still.

Gave up on the 1st loop after coming down cloud nine, and then into tighter greassier more log strewn singletrack. The bike was boiling over, the rear was sliding out over every log, and my ankle hurt like a SOB from a previous lowside where it cushioned the bike. So I told my buds I'd meet them at the staging and headed out to the Maclean road, flipped the mirrors out, turned my headlight on, passed SRD at like 90 kmph :lol: no issues, and was having ibuprofen and a Powerade in about 10 minutes. So the street legality is nice. :smirk: I will likely need the KTM fan kit. will try some water wetter and relocating the CDI, coolant recovery and horn out from in front of the rads 1st.

Also a bit concerned about the non o-ringed 420 secondary drive chain durability, every mud ride it is PACKED full after, easy enough to remove, hose down, soak in ATF, and lube. If I had a long highway run dualsporting it, I might remove it - the top sprocket comes off via a snapring. Getting a spare sent anyhow. Same concern for the lowers and the freewheel hub, altho they do seem well sealed, again should have spares onhand soon. Rear Pivot Works o-ringed axle spacers worked great. Some more parts showed up.
EEcasesaver.JPG
BRPandBPD.JPG
Last edited by malcolmzilla on Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Brass »

Is there enough room in the case to allow you to install an o-ring chain, that case looks like it must be pretty tight.

I also noticed that you have the EE clutch guard, since installing one on my bike i noticed more crud getting packed in around the chain. I'm not sure if in fact there is more stuff getting stuck there or maybe I'm just noticing it more. Maybe look at removing it to see if it makes a difference? :thinking:

Cool bike! It sounds like it really keeps you moving and stable in the mud. I'm sure a lot of folks would like to have it for some of the races that went on lately, or to ride in the winter with studs!
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malcolmzilla
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

No room for an o-ring is what Christini says. I just put the EE guard on, was running the stock plastic one, trimmed for the secondary chain. I'd think the EE would pack up less that the stock, but its the top transfer case input area that also gets packed up. Meh it's mud, whatcha gonna do? Just inspect and replace components more often.

As for the AWD, it by no means puts me out front, nor do I have the desire or skill to be in the lead. But it does save some effort, and over the really problematic sections gets me across much quicker and with less profanity. :lol: A few buds have tried it out, opinions vary, most can see some benefit in the realy gnarly stuff. :cheers: If you see me out there come ask to take it for a spin. You break it, you bought it tho... LOL
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by malcolmzilla »

Black plastics (saving the Redbull Champions from further trail rash), maybe some Christini graphics, and fitting a set Giant Loop Mojave bags (trim plate holder and drill/zip tie rear clamps). After using the Coyote bags in Baja, yes pricey but 100% value in them , I'm sold on getting the weight off the rider and onto the bike. Rarely touched the big Coyotes, so not too worried about these interfering, might not allow my rear tugger over the fender though, may drill new mounting points in the sub frame under the seat for it... My bike does enjoy a trail side nap frequently. :blush:

Tired of bite marks/bruises from a loaded backpack over a pressure suit, full of tools/spares/water, and also dismounting and landing on it nearly hyperextended my spine. These guys at ~12L, should hold all my day ride necessities: spares/tools, first aid, powerades, beer, scooby snacks and inclement weather gear, just leave em on the bike. Going to try the LED signal's again, bought a better higher load self grounded LED flasher control, busted a stocker anyhow. Maybe also wire in the GPS and heated grips. :D
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Re: Christini AWD 530 EXC build

Post by Shibby! »

I had the pleasure of riding the 530 Christy a couple weeks ago. With a 10 minute ride it's not a full on review, but my experience was different then what I thought it would be.

Coming from a 250XC, I was used to the model of bike, however the 530 felt much different then I was expecting. First off, with the Christy kit it feels hefty while stationary. I'm not sure how much the 530 weighs normally, but it's no lightweight with this kit installed. Much almost compared to my XR650 (that I was riding that day). Once rolling it felt WAY different from my 2-smoke. That I was expecting, but it just didn't feel like I was assuming it would have. Malcolm's HD suspension was too firm for my liking. I do like firm suspension (one of the few who actually likes the 2008 XC suspension), however this was at a whole new level.

Ok, so time to ride. With any new bike, things just feel different. It could be the same bike, but things feel different. Ie, Andreas' bike and my bike. Same year, model, etc, but feel like two different bikes. Engine, suspension, and lever/bar positions. So there was some getting used to it. What I first noticed was the 530 is no XR650 engine wise. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, but the XR650 has torque that'll loop the bike at idle. From there the engine gathers steam and becomes more poweful and responsive. Too much? Maybe. It's a handful but just finishing a 40km loop on the XR650 I was able to handle it, just not very efficiently. The engine is quicker reving, but still has a gear box where you need to be in the right gear. Maybe I was just not wanting to lug or race a new/tight bike? Either way, I felt I was switching gears a lot much like my XR with it's short/close gear box.

Once rolling things started to jive. I'll admit to a few twists of the throttle and a few single tire manuevers. Hey, he said take it for a test, not a spin... I found myself wheeling up a few hills to test... uh... traction? Either way the bike was coming alive, but I was still having my indifferences. I caught myself in the wrong gear trying to wheelie over some ruts and to my embarassment, stalling in front of a group of people. Here I was on an ungodly pricey motorcycle with a massive fail at riding. See, when I ride my flogged out bikes, I don't have this issue. My stuff isn't anodized and shiney. People expect bad riding. Well, in the rut I couldn't get the AWD system to work. It may have been the torque limiter or operators problem, but I tried spinning the rear with the lever both forward and back (assuming it was required to be stationary to switch this system, I would be surprised if it was a on the fly manual switch). Maybe if the gears don't line up it doesn't engage(is it clutch actuated?)? Nadda. With my dissapointment I put the feet down and pushed my way out. I had that feeling the people spectating were chuckling. Oh well.

Back on the trail I was testing it's grunt by doing some shorter hill climbs up the quad trails north of fisher east, doing the odd wheelie up hills and roosting around corners, both in AWD mode and out. It definitely hooks up when both tires are engaged and shoots you out of corners and up rocky hills. Just be prepared to hold on when you twist the throttle beause the bike has a tendancy to leave you behind. I stopped on some rocky, relatively steep hills to test the AWD system and regain my faith in the AWD feature. Sure enough, slipping the clutch with a little throttle in ultra low gear the system hooks up and pulls, leaving you laying on the seat playing superman looking for any grip the bike has to remind you are "riding" the machine and not just a passenger. I found the added traction is great, but only if you can get on the bike and ride it out. Much harder then I thought it would be if you are starting off with questionable footing.

Satisfied by the AWD test, I did my 2-point turn on the tight trail and headed back down. I think I have a decent downhill ability and it seems where I can catch most people. I tend to clutch in and let the bike flow like a mountain bike. Smoothly picking my lines and shreading down the rock faced hills, I once again felt the bike being a handful. There seemed to be some mechanical feedback coupled with the stiff/choppy suspension. I noticed it before, but just thought it was my rusty riding. (this year hasn't been a great start to my riding year with more falls then probably all of last year combined). I was still trying to find my groove, but it wasn't happening with this bike. Later to find out the driveshafts, always in "gear" do play a part on the steering and do affect the way the bike rides. This was my single biggest complaint about the system. Maybe I needed more time to adjust to this, but felt there must be a better way to drive a front wheel (ie hydraulics/yamaha's system). I know they tried it, but felt the power loss too severe. I wondered about this because mechanical loss is still an issue, and hydraulics tends to be fairly efficient with the right motors, they also have the ability to do one way clutching with bypasses, etc. In either event, I think this was the root of most of my issues with riding the bike. It surely needed more seat time to get used to.

Overall, the bike is neat to ride. It's ability to crawl through tough sections and hook up out of corners was entertaining to say the least. I do feel its not a long haul machine where energy is required to be reserved. It could have been the short time on the machine, but I felt I was working pretty hard to control it's power and feedback in the bars. Suspension set-up for my weight and riding style would help, but when a machine wants to go and you need to hold on it takes energy.

I'm curious to see how Malcolm progresses with the bike and see it in more circumstances where the system is needed, and where it's being used and it isn't needed. I think for the gain, you do have some side effects, i'm just curious at what point do they come into play and if they'll ever be an issue once he's comfortable on the new scoot.
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