2t jetting question

[absurveyor]

Dave
The new 530 EXC got great reviews in this months Dirt rider. Its Dual Sport capable and only 50 pounds heavier than a 300.... and I still couldn't catch you.

[dirtyboy]

I was reading that 530 review. When do you think it will have the new frame and fuel injection? Might have to settle for a blue one?

[350scott]

Ride my bike for the year, try to get on as many 2t as possible.

Joe, you really should try and spend some time on a few newer 4st off-roaders as well. They are worlds different then your DRZ. You should aim to try a Berg (they really do feel different), a 250F and a 400-530F. You're more than welcome to try my 400 any time, the only issue is that the uniqueness of my setup may skew your opinions.

On the 2st front you really should try and ride a 200, 250 and 300. For me, a 300 is flat out scary while a 200 seems like a fun play bike. I've never tried a 250 (37, DB, Rackman-Help).

A couple more pennies to add to the 4st cost discussion. Yes, if you crater a 4st top end it will be expensive but the likelihood of you doing this is very, very low. Check and shim your valves as required (not hard), change your oil and most importantly keep dirt out (clean, properly seated oil filter) and I'd be amazed if you crater a top end. Dropping your 4st in the creek doesn't mean it's dead, you just need to make kill the engine ASAP and dry it out properly (just ask Porchev )

Lastly, even though I'm a 4st lover, I have to agree with DB, they are harder to jet, particularly the damn accelerator pump/leak jet (thank god for FI).

[trailguy]

Joe, to answer your question on 2T jetting having to be changed every 10 Deg. This is not an issue for riding in AB & BC etc. Once you get the bike properly jetted, the only changes I make are turning the air screw in when it gets cold, or turning it out when its really hot.One thing thats important not to over look is run the best pump gas you can buy = Shell Gold and run the pre-mix oil at the oil manufacturers recommended ratio - not the ratio in the manual. When they give you a ratio in the manual they usually are refering to a certain oil brand.
My Niece grenaded your fourstroke last month (which was well maintained) piston skirt broke - $3500.00 to fix and that was getting a good deal on parts!

[350scott]

My Niece grenaded your fourstroke last month (which was well maintained) piston skirt broke - $3500.00 to fix and that was getting a good deal on parts!

How the heck did she do this? Bad piston? Did it get into the top end or just destroy the bottom end?

[trailguy]

My Niece grenaded your fourstroke last month (which was well maintained) piston skirt broke - $3500.00 to fix and that was getting a good deal on parts!

How the heck did she do this? Bad piston? Did it get into the top end or just destroy the bottom end?

Wasn't a bad piston, bike had been running great. It took out the top & bottom end, crank and all.

[absurveyor]

Ride my bike for the year, try to get on as many 2t as possible.

Joe, you really should try and spend some time on a few newer 4st off-roaders as well. They are worlds different then your DRZ. You should aim to try a Berg (they really do feel different), a 250F and a 400-530F. You're more than welcome to try my 400 any time, the only issue is that the uniqueness of my setup may skew your opinions.

On the 2st front you really should try and ride a 200, 250 and 300. For me, a 300 is flat out scary while a 200 seems like a fun play bike. I've never tried a 250 (37, DB, Rackman-Help).

A couple more pennies to add to the 4st cost discussion. Yes, if you crater a 4st top end it will be expensive but the likelihood of you doing this is very, very low. Check and shim your valves as required (not hard), change your oil and most importantly keep dirt out (clean, properly seated oil filter) and I'd be amazed if you crater a top end. Dropping your 4st in the creek doesn't mean it's dead, you just need to make kill the engine ASAP and dry it out properly (just ask Porchev )

Lastly, even though I'm a 4st lover, I have to agree with DB, they are harder to jet, particularly the damn accelerator pump/leak jet (thank god for FI).

And Scotts 4t might be a good used buy at the end of the season when he gets his 2t!

[Dobi]

I grenaded a KX250 with a broken piston skirt once. My $3000 purchase, plus numerous repairs turned into a "I'll give you $400 for the frame and I will turn it into a hill climber"

Joe, weight will mean nothing you you and your Arnold physique come summer. You can Gorilla press a DRZ just as easily as a 400 Husaberg.....

[350scott]

And Scotts 4t might be a good used buy at the end of the season when he gets his 2t!

Continuing my thread hi-jack. My bike should be for sale at the end of the season, but my crystal ball sees a 250XCF or 350XCF in the garage. Come to think of it really should ride a 2t for more than 10min's, only problem is nobody wants to ride my 400XCw Scott Special Edition for more than 10min's.

[dirtyboy]

Come to think of it really should ride a 2t for more than 10min's, only problem is nobody wants to ride my 400XCw Scott Special Edition for more than 10min's.

Maybe if you removed that cheating clutch and mixed up braking apparatus that wouldn't be an issue? I would trade with you on a ride if I didn't think that I'd pull the clutch in and end up heading over the handlebars.

[Bark]

I went from a '01 DRZ400E, to '08 530 XC-W, to '11 250XC.

My #1 motivation in both cases was lower weight. When I got the 530, my buddies were all on 2t's and they all wondered at me lugging that big 530 around. It was waaay lighter in the bush than the DRZ (so I was ahead of where I had been). When I finally listened to the advice to turn off the compression damping it handled so much more lightly, too. In my best riding shape, I can toss it around pretty good (for me) but it does just get heavy by the end of the day. I love the electric type motor. I've said it many times, that 530 is the best bike I've owned; I'm going to cry a little when it goes. (It'll, ahem, be for sale soon, too.)

I don't have a ton of experience on the 2t. Watching my brother (Rod) get back into riding on his '09 250XC last year pretty much inked the deal for me. He was really amazing on how quickly he adapted to nasty single track after a few years away from bikes completely (and we didn't know about single track when he had rode last). He did so many things so super well on that thing and I did get to ride it a bit and its so light. The power is not as instant at low revs compared to the 530 4t but the power gets down (at least the little that I rode it). I was super impressed.

Watching guys on their 2ts also really said to me, I've got to give this a real go.

I will admit to being a little nervous of the 4t rebuild costs should that ever be necessary.

On the jetting, I put in a JDJetting kit on the 530 according to JD specs from day one (before I even started the bike ala KTMTalk XC4 forum advice, /wink @ Steveo) and that bike just ran flawless. I also put the cooling fan on it. That bike never once overheated and the throttle was like an electric motor. As per another post here, I'm planning to follow the KTM manual for the beginning of the riding on my XC. I have no idea how well that is going to go; OK by the sound of things.

At the end of the day, everyone's going to like what they like and do what they do.

Cheers,
Aaron

[cladoo]

Just to add my 2 cents in. I have gone 4 seasons on my 300 Gas Gas with the stock piston and rings. I made some jetting changes when I first got the bike and haven't changed it since. I love my 300! As I am getting older I am getting lazier and the 300's power suits me to a T! Having worked on 4t's and 2t's, I have to say I prefer the 2t's, much simpler and easier to work on. And seeing what customers are paying to get their thumpers repaired at the dealership I am working at just shocks me! I have heard the same story from 4t owners about how they are bullet proof and then BOOM it grenades and the bike is an engineless roller, as the cost to repair it is more than the bike is worth. Any time you want to try my bike you are welcome to. JMHO ( I am not wearing a salesman hat either!)

[rock93]

Most modern two strokes are pretty forgiving with jetting. The only time you should have to rejet is for winter riding.

[thirtyseven]

According to rumor:
2t + lightweight, easy to work on, less $ for rebuild, more power
2t - stalls easier, peaky power, mix gas, rejet often, new top end yearly.

4t with EFI + never rejet, can tractor well, smooth power delivery, easy fueling
4t with EFI - heavy, computer failures possible, expensive new top end every couple years, bike itself is expensive

Discuss

To confuse you alittle more...."2t- stalls easier, peaky power" can be true, can be completely false.
"4t with EFI can tractorwell, smooth power" can be true, cam be completely false.

Within each engine type are broad variations. Both 2t and 4t can be either peaky or have smooth power delivery, can be virtually impossible to stall or quit spontaneously. I'm not talking about the tuning you can do at home, ie ffw etc. It's comprises the engineers make I'n the design phase. The 4t I'n a 400 xcw will give you an astoundingly smooth power delivery and is impossibly to stall, the 450sx I'n the same situation will feel like a monstrous peaky lunging stalling beast. 2t the same, an mx 250 will be much more "peaky" and stall susceptible than an offroad version. In a few minutes of riding Steveo's 300 you'll realize it'll tractor through anything ( you'll have to give yourself time to get used to the violence of the power that's waiting for you if you twist your wrist, but thats not a 2t thing, that's because your drz is such a mild bike in comparison)

You have to remember a couple things... 1st, engines of both types can be designed with the characteristics you are/are not looking for. 2nd, same displacement 2t engines deliver 1/3 more torque and 1/3 more hp than their 4t brethren. This dramatic increase in both torque and horsepower is often interpreted by TH I'll informed as the motor being unmanageable or peakier, when the reality is it's just leaner and meaner. Of coarse a 250 f feels smoother than a 250 smoker, it's giving you far less in any given twist of the throttle!

Finally, for all riders your dilema is a fluctuating riddle. In 2004 I was convinced I had "outgrown" a 250f. Last Yr I almost bought one again and would have been twice A's fast on it A's I was on the old WR. Good luck! (ps get the bike that strikes your fancy and makes you giggle like a school girl just make sure you add a horn!)

[Spinalguy]

My 2009 Berg FE450 (fuel injected and recently re mapped) will be up for sale this June. i have a good friend who has spoken for it but if he has no money, than i will sell it here.
It comes with a better skid plate, GPR stabilizer, Bark busters, grip heaters with new grips, Infinity sub tanks, a fan and head and tail light.
i am selling because my season is done as of June 28. i am getting full knee reconstruction and will be on crutches for 5 weeks PRIOR to starting Rehab.
The bike is fantastic. i started on a 2t 300 EXC. Probably due to inability but i realized after trading someone for their 525 for the day that i was faster on a 4t. i sold the 300 and bought a ktm 450EXC in 2006. Loved the bike, hated the carb. It never ran awesome, never! It ran well, but thats about it. i also realized i am a 4t rider all the way. In 2009, i grabbed the Berg 450. GAME changer. Fuel injection is soooooooooo sweet

i see all these older guys flocking to tiny 250's and i wonder what that must be like as they are so light. Deep down, i know i am a 4t guy and as tempting as it is to try a tiny bike, i just 'know' that i am not a 2t rider. So, the 2012 Berg 450 will be the next bike.