Bike Selection Dilemma

[Brass]

I should be working on writing out a report on a company that I audited but I simply can’t find the right words to say “you’re screwed”. So, here I sit trying to distract myself by looking at new bikes and trying to decide on which one will be the one.

Most everyone here by now knows that I’m still trying to decide on the best bike for me to open up my wallet to. There have been many arguments made for many bikes of all colours. Here is my list of possible candidates in no particular order.

YZ250 (2t)
KTM 300/250/200/150 xc/xc-w (2t)
WR450
KLX450
RMX450
Berg 450

From this list we could easily say that each is a great bike it its own way.

I’ll be honest that the YZ250 is there for sentimental reasons as it is the last remaining Jap 2t and I have had them in the past. I still feel that attachment. It is not the most practical woods bike but it still has that 2t zing that is so much fun and easy to love.

The KTM bikes are of interest because of the range of 2t bikes offered. The 150 could be a great fun machine that still has that mx style zing in the motor, but the 300 would have that extra grunt that would certainly be needed at some point. Even on a 2t, the magic button would be great for when you bang your knee off a tree and can’t kick the motor over and you’re at the bottom of the hill so push starting is not an option. Although I am now very comfortable starting a bike with my left leg.

The WR and KLX are typical of the Jap bikes. Solid 4t motors, low purchase price on unchanged 09 models, e-start, easy to tune carbs, parts are available everywhere.

The RMX fits in the same group as above but adds FI to the mix, although it does have a limited range due to its small tank. Extra capacity tanks are already available though that would add extra weight.

Then there is the Berg 450. A sophisticated machine, light-weight, FI, variable maps but the limited dealer network and parts availability may be an issue.

Missing are, Honda, not considered because of their new dealer structure and Gas Gas because of limited dealer network, sorry Claude.

Let’s look at the motor, 2t or 4t.

The 2t is easier and cheaper to maintain, lighter than a 4t, fun power delivery.

The 4t has a more useable power delivery for woods riding, less sensitive to altitudes and jetting, tractor like power down low.

Any of the bikes mentioned is going to be an improvement many times over from my current scooter. From those bikes, now consider my ride, a 1990 Suzuki DR350.

The bad; it’s 20 years old, ugly, parts are getting hard to find, it weighs 249 (much more than a 2t), the suspension is soft and the frame flexes when pushed hard, at least so I’ve been told. I am not a racer and never again will be so that limit has not been met.

The good; it weighs 249 lbs dry, 271 all wet and ready according to my scale, comparable to a modern Jap 4t. The motor is completely fresh, rebuilt by yours truly, it will never boil over. A fresh powder coating on the frame and some plastic will make her pretty again. It can be fixed on the trail with a pair of pliers and a rock.

Things to consider, I was only able to find the time last year for 1 ride that lasted about 2 hours. Is it really worth the 9K to drop on a bike that will be ridden that seldom? Will having a new bike cause me to “make time” for riding?

So, what to do? Keep my old stead for those 1-2 rides per year?

Or

Pick a new scooter and hope to ride more, but, which bike to pick?

You will note that I made no mention of buying a newer used bike, this is because I would likely drop 4 to 5K on a good clean bike and then take it home and rebuild the engine and suspension. After taking into consideration the cost of a piston, crank bearings, head work (if a 4t), suspension bits, clutch plates, basket, chain, plastic and other bits, the cost of that used bike is close to a new bike.


Your suggestions and comments are appreciated.

[dirtyboy]

Wow that's a thorough post.

I can say that whenever I see someone get a new bike they ALWAYS make more time to ride.

Moving to technical forum.

[steve-o]

I can say that whenever I see someone get a new bike they ALWAYS make more time to ride. :

word!

[absurveyor]

Very well written.
My 2 cents is that for how much you ride your current bike is the best bet but........

Will a new bike increase the fun factor of your riding? The new suspensions are way nicer than the old bikes and easier to ride faster and farther. I can't ride to the limits of my current bike anyway. All the bikes you listed will work.

In that case go for cost. That was my reason for going green. $3000.00 cheaper than a pumpkin, and like you used was not an option. Does your riding schedule allow you to spend the extra on the best bike? Look for a non current and save thousands.

happy hunting!

[Dobi]

I have been both a 2st and a 4st owner and depending on the day I want the other one…

The YZ250 can be turned into a great woods bike and the accessibility to parts is great.

I gave up my 450SXF and one of the big reasons was maintenance. The cost of ownership on the 4 stroke was a bit more than the cost of the pre-mix.

I never had issues with valves or internal workings on the 4st and changed the piston and rings out at 100hrs. the cost of the piston and rings was about 3 times more than my 300 and took about the same skill and time to rebuild. I would assume that the same could be said about the other 4 strokes for maintenance and durability.

The E-start is a nice feature but is also another item to maintain and replace….

The 4 stroke is a bit easier of a bike to ride as they tend to stand up better and flow through the rough stuff a little straighter. Hills are easier on a 4st than a 2st, and we do live near some pretty big hills….

The argument for a new bike is a good one. If you had $10k sitting in the garage collecting dust you are going to make the time to ride it. We ride every Wed night all summer long, throw in a few camping weekends and you are bound to get some more time onto the new machine this year.

[Brass]

I can say that whenever I see someone get a new bike they ALWAYS make more time to ride. :

word!

It's not really my schedule that is the problem. It's my work schedule that gets in the way.

[Brent]

If i was in your shoes, i would buy the Berg 450 FX that is in the classifieds. you will be blown away with how far bikes have come, then you will find your self riding much more as you are the proud owner of an incredible thumper. the trails you used to struggle on will all of the sudden become easier to ride and you will find a new sense of joy and urge to ride.
as for parts, I call A&E, talk to Betty and find out that she knows just as much as i do, if not more, about the machine. usually has the items in stock, or puts them on a max 3 day order. the parts are then shipped to my business's front door the next day at less cost then 2 trips to any dealer on fuel...yes, cheaper then driving to any dealer. they get excellent rates on shipping. plus, the parts that are ordered are correct and properly in order with all other needed parts. Betty has been at A&E longer then i have been racing/riding, that might give you an idea as to why she is good at what she does (Chantelle seams excellent as well). how many parts guys have you seen at the same counter for 15 years?

being that you are coming off of a dr 350 (i had this same bike in 97) you will prefer a thumper instead of the pipe dream 2 stroke (just a guess here). but i am the same as Dobi, i have owned both and love/hate both. but, the 570 makes me smile from ear to ear every time i ride her. very managable, tractable and fun/flickable too.

second choice would be a 300 xc/w if you are not racing.

If you are considering the Jap thumpers, then i have had excellent service from all the guys at Seitzco and their super tough WR 450.

Have fun! I am a little addicted to buying new dirt bikes, but this is the first time in a long time that i have zero urge to go and look at anything else, as the 570 flat out rips in every aspect! Marge has purged me of my own vice.
you will find it rare, to find a partially used berg as many others are in the same situation. there are many stories of 150 + hours before valve adjustment is required.

[350scott]

My two cents on the four strokes as I'm not a two stroke guy.

• The WR450 is a good bike that you can find at a great price. They have proven durable and parts are a plenty with lots of them on the trail.
• The KLX450 is basically in the same boat as the WR with fewer on the trail and maybe less parts. And the rad's are easily squished (right Jacques!)
• The RMX450 is unproven, but does have FI which may or may not be good.
• By most comments (Spinalguy) the Berg450 is a great bike, just expensive.

I noticed you didn't mention the KTM400/450 or the Berg390. If you are considering a new 4st and have the cash for the Berg450 these should be on your list as well. For my money the KTM400 and Berg390 are better options for most people as the 450 power can be overwhelming. (note: comparison article on KTM400 vs Berg390 in this months Dirt Bike).

As for 4st maintenance, it isn't really a big deal. Change the oil, keep the filter clean, keep the spokes tight, oil the chain all the same as a 2st. Additional work is the valves, which really are not much mork. Once you learn how, checking the valves should take about a 1/2hour, with shimming taking maybe another hour. Weigh this vs. maintaining the reed/power valve on a 2st (maybe one of the 2st guys can chime in on this). Considering that you do not ride often and it doesn't sound like you are a racer reving to the moon, the valves, piston, etc... should last a very long time (i.e. 5yrs).

All of the above, being said, if I didn't ride much, I'd try to get my hands on a year old bike that hasn't had the sludge beat out of it and pocket the difference.

[Brass]

Scott, you’re right, the WR and KLX are easily found and have durable proven motors. The RMX, since it is essentially the RMZ motor just with a different cam and ignition and fuel mapping should be as durable, just less of them around. Being that they are Jap bikes, parts are cheap, easy to find and relatively easy to replace. The purchase price is also lower for the KLX and WR because of non-current bikes being available.

I did not include the 4t KTM bikes in my short list because of cost. The KTM has a higher sticker price over the Jap 4t and are not (at my skill level) worth the extra $$$. If I was a racer or even a more serious rider, they would be considered. As it is, because they are more $$$ than the Jap 4t, they have been left out.

Now onto the Berg450, yep it takes a pile of cash to take one home but I think you could class it as “the” top shelf bike, the Cadillac or Lamborghini of the woods bikes. Who wouldn’t want that in their garage? It is most certainly way more bike than I’ll ever need/want. But it also has a few extras that none other have; 10 ignition maps for instance. This makes the bike that much more tuneable for the situation and rider and could justify the extra cash for the purchase price! To be perfectly honest though, of the bikes on the list it is the most likely to be scratched off first because it is just too much bike and cash to justify buying it.

2t vs 4t maintenance, I do all my own work with the exception of cutting valve seats and boring out cylinders. Simple stuff like shimming valves or replacing crank bearings won’t scare me away but I don’t want to be doing it every time the bikes gets started. As you say though, with the amount of riding I do, perhaps it’s not an issue at all. I hadn’t looked at it this way so it is something to consider.

When it comes down to being a 2t or 4t type of rider, I honestly don’t know anymore! Not including street bikes, the last 2t bike I rode was about 15 years ago and even though the DR is parked in the garage, it has only been ridden for about 2 hours. I guess you could say I’m a clean slate.

The dilemma continues.

[Zeal]

If your on a budget, I have a very affordable 08 Husky 250 4T. I really like the bike, but prefer my 2T.

If you listed your height and weight, it would have an impact on the recommendations that you get. If you are a bigger guy, and have the cash, you cant go wrong with the berg option. I also know a guy selling a 450 yzf set up for the bush.

The sure winner on your list is the 300 2T. Anyone can ride this bike and love it, and they are low mainenance. However, they vibrate like crazy.

[HollywoodMX]

I have owned a 03 WR450, 05 YZ 250 2t, an 07 Gas Gas EC 300 and an 06 YZ 250 2t and I dont miss any of them compared to my YZ which is why I have the 06 now.

To me it fits just right. Great power, great tunability, tonnes of parts, easy to maintain, and top notch yamaha quality.

There are some good bikes in your list, personally I wouldnt buy any of the jap 450s unless its the new YZ, which is better to wait a year anyways.

You have to ask youself a few easy questions:

- Do you want a light bike or a heavy bike? Cause in the end you have to muscle it in the woods.
- Are you ok with a possbile 1k+ 4t repair bill if you have some bad luck?
- If you drop it crossing a creek and dump the bike would you rather park and have to tear it apart, or turn it upside side and clean out the water for 10 minutes, then ride the rest of the day?

After that if you are narrowed down to 2 strokes, then its an easy question of what type of rider you are:

- Do you want 4t like grunt but with some early sign off of power but easy to manage, friendly power (300's)
- Do you want that bit of adrenaline that you get from a snappy 250 2t? It rides in the woods totally fine.

A YZ with the squish done and a rekluse and your set for the woods, yes you can get a bunch of other things too but thats a good starting point.

[markvfr]

Thats a nice lookin' YZ Hollywood!

[cedric]

I had a YZ250 as well, and while I agree they can be awesome woods bikes, here is the other side of the story (and probably true for any mx bike):

- The power comes on quick. This is fun to ride, but probably made me slower.
- The stock suspension will rattle your fillings out on roots and rocks
- The stock tank will run out of gas sooner
- There is no provision for powering lights which are required to be legal in our riding areas.
- There is no spark arrestor which is also required
- You'll want more flywheel whenever the ground is slick
- It won't have a kickstand unless you add one
- It will still have a 19" wheel unless you lace up an 18

Then you need to armor the bike properly, although that is true for most any bike.

So if you like to build your bike, the YZ can be a great option. I did a lot of this stuff, but never did the suspension work. Starting with a real enduro bike is going to be a lot easier and likely cheaper in the long run. If you still dabble in MX, the converted mx bike might make more sense for you.

As for your work schedule getting in the way all the time, life is too short to work that much...

[Brass]

As for your work schedule getting in the way all the time, life is too short to work that much...

So true.

The reality though is that the job that keeps me so busy is the same one that allows me to afford the new bike! I could give up the job and work less but that also means giving up the bike. A catch 22. Time will be found for riding this year but I know it will be limited.

[thirtyseven]

All great bikes, all need help to make them perfect for you, it comes down to one simple issue. One day, nomatter which bike you get you'll be lying underneath it thinking 1st" ohhh that hurt" 2nd "I wish this bike was lighter".