Studded Winter Tires ('09)

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crazy2wheeler
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Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

Thinking about riding this winter?!

Myself and many others in RMDRA ride a lot during the winter. It's a blast - the only additional equipment you should consider are:
1. Heated grips (about $40), and
2. Studded winter tires

Options for tires:

1. Ice screws - least expensive ($200 - $250/set), but they are not that durable, particularly if your wheels wind up seeing anything harder than ice (ie - ROCK - you know how much of that there is)

2. High quality screw-type studs - initially double the cost of option 1, then less expensive than option 1 (about $500/set, then $120/set), but very close in durability and performance to the high end tires.

3. High end purpose built tires - most expensive (Trelleborg - over $1000/set). This is the benchmark we use to compare to for performance and durability, and they are the most convenient (requires no work to screw the screws/studs into the tire).

I've got a set of Trelleborgs, I've got a set of Michelins. I think the trellies are worth the additional cost over the Michelins. I've found that I can get 2 - 3 seasons out of a set of trellies (riding fairly aggressively, in the rocky conditions we have around here in the foothills and eastern rockies), riding 1-2 times per month from December to April. By the end of the 3rd season the trellies are pretty trashed - the studs themselves are fine, but the knobs are chunking badly and breaking off.

Riding more sheepishly – particularly by avoiding any rocks/rocky areas they’ll probably last you 5 years or more (requires too much discipline for me – I don’t want to forego a ride because there are gonna be rocky sections).

It used to be the only options were the low end screws, or the high end tires.

For people who are "frugal" like me (or even downright cheap like Red Green) - but still want the performance of the high end tires, there is now the middle choice - Bestgrip studs.



Bestgrip stud
BestGrip1.gif
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Studs installed (rear)
BestGrip2.jpg
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Magnetic Installation Bit
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After 1240 miles (on concrete, pavement and snow/ice)
1240%20miles.jpg


The studs are very similar in appearance to trelli studs when installed. Because of their screw-anchor design, it is very difficult to tear a stud out, making the tires virtually as durable as trellies. The studs wear as well as the trelli studs – both are tungsten carbide tipped, traction and grip is very close as well. The main difference is these studs can be removed from a tire that is chunking, and installed in a fresh tire.

AND, next year or the following year, and again in a later year, you can have an essentially NEW set of studded tires for only $120. The only cost is for new rubber, because you can spin the studs out of the tire that's falling apart and just screw them into new rubber (these studs are carbide tipped - so they are durable, and RE-USEABLE).


I will be putting in an order on MONDAY, November 9th.

Pricing is expected to be $0.80/stud, and $10 for the installation tool (+GST). This MAY vary slightly IF shipping costs (including tarriffs and duty) are significantly higher (or lower!) than expected. Front tire studs and rear tire studs are NOT the same. Trellies have about 350 studs in the rear, and approx 250 studs in the front. We’ve typically been using about 250 studs for a front, and 300 in the rear.

I'm taking a 50% deposit from each person. Below are the typical costs:
300 rear tire studs ($240)
+ 250 front tire studs ($200)
+ 2 installation bits ($10 each)

= $450 + gst = $472.50 (Deposit of $250, or you can pay all at once if it's less hassle for ya, which is also easier for me).


In my opinion if someone has lots of money to throw around, buy the trellies - but for the rest of us this is the only way to go - very similar performance, way less cost, way longer useable life.

IF you want to be included in the first order of the season (frequency depends on number of orders), then:

PM me your order by this Sunday - November 8th.

I should have your order for you to pick-up about a week later (week of November 16th).


Derek Radomski CA 403.714.7440


NOTE: I will be demonstrating how the studs are installed at the RMDRA Monthly Meeting (7pm) this Thursday, November 5th at the Capitol Hill Community Center (14th st and 20th ave NW).


See the following post if you want more info.
Last edited by crazy2wheeler on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

Additional detail - (but probably not in any logical order!)


Manufacturer by Bestgrip in Italy. Website: http://www.best-grip.com/eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other pricing/products:

1. Aerostich - $97usd per 100 studs PLUS shipping, similar stud, but made in Taiwan/China (essentially a lower quality knock-off: check out the images, and they have only ONE model/size [Off Road (9 x 17.4mm) ] ) AND more expensive! http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Sel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 19555.html

2. A dealer in Sweden will sell (same product as me) “retail” for 0.40euro/stud – after conversion (about $1.60 for 1 euro) and shipping more expensive than me AND ya gotta buy a minimum of 5000 (thousand). Similar cost - but must buy HUGE volume!

3. Gripstuds.com in the US sells the same product as me, $99usd per 100 studs, plus shipping and brokerage. WAY more expensive!


Bestgrip Studs are more expensive through anyone else - I deal with them because I think they are a good product and I'd like people over here (Alberta & Canada) to know about them.


One of the things I really like about this product is that you can install them yourself (they screw into the knobs of the tire) - you don't need any specialized, expensive equipment, and you DON'T have to predrill the knobs before installing the studs. I like that they can be removed and remounted into a new tire when the tire starts getting a bit beat-up. This way, you can have an essentially new set of tires each season for just the cost of a cheap tire (ie - $40 to $60 for a rear).

It takes me 60 - 90 minutes to fully stud a tire (I think the first one I did was probably about 2 hours, but I was learning how to install as I'd had no instruction).

The studs are made in and shipped from Italy.

There are several rear and front tires that work well in this application (holding the studs, and staying pliable in snowy conditions).


The Bestgrip studs seat into the knob 14 to 16.5mm, and after seated protrude from the tire 7 to 8mm (depending on front or rear).

The studs themselves aren't the cheapest alternative intially (but still less than half the cost of the trellis).

So, Yep, you are looking at about $600 including rubber - but after 3 years when the trelli guys are dumping $1200 again for another set of trellies, you can have a virtually new set of studded tires for only the cost of the rubber ($120).


If you would pass along to me the names of anyone you think should be "in the market" that would be great.

Cheers,
D.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by Tsauve »

do u have to glue these in and yes im interested call me and we can talk 466-8315 trent thanks

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

Tsauve wrote:do u have to glue these in and yes im interested call me and we can talk 466-8315 trent thanks
No glueing or pre-drilling required. Installation takes only a few seconds per stud.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by Tsauve »

do u recomend a certain type of tire to stud and how can i get ahold of u so i can make an order

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

Tsauve wrote:do u recomend a certain type of tire to stud and how can i get ahold of u so i can make an order
I pm'd you yesterday. Check your inbox.

D.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by thirtyseven »

Derek I'm in, did you get my pm?
PRESIDENT-YAMAHA ANONYMOUS

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

OK RMDRA'rs

I want to get my order in ASAP - I would like to get it in Tomorrow (Monday)!!! :crazy:


Orders I have so far - UPDATED NOV 15, 2009:

Dave S - Front and Rear set
Howard - Front and Rear set
Jamie K - Front only
Tab S - Rear only
Darcy W - 3 x Rear
Dave D - Front and Rear set
Ken K - Front and Rear set
Doug K - Front and Rear set
Trent S - Front and Rear set
Chuck T - Front only
Dennis K - Front only
Mike R - Front and Rear set

IF ANYONE else would like to get ahold of studs to set up their wheels for winter riding ASAP, let me know ASAP!!
Last edited by crazy2wheeler on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by MtnBlue »

What front tire will people be using to stud up?
996

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by markvfr »

MtnBlue wrote:What front tire will people be using to stud up?
I've got the deathshark studded.

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by golarge »

I'am useing a Dunlop 739 FA. Big deep lugs.
Yup. Got a new one.

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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

MtnBlue wrote:What front tire will people be using to stud up?
Fronts take ~250-300 studs, and rear tires take ~250-350. Studs are a little different for the front and the rear. If you need to buy more I like to do at least 50 studs at a time.

Tire choice, that's an interesting one. Factory recommends using a tire with harder rubber compound (like a soft or soft - intermediate tire). In theory, a tire built with harder rubber compound would last longer, and be more likely to keep the bike standing on the studs rather than rubber - which on ice and frozen ground would probably be best.

Around here, a lot of the time we are on bare rock - where a softer rubber compound would perform better by gripping the rock. The downside of the softer rubber compound is that the studs in theory would tear out more easily, and the tire (rubber) would wear more quickly and so not last as long. In practice, these studs have been used in softer rubber, repeatedly ridden very aggressively, and have not been torn out. Yes, the tire does break down more quickly - but that's the whole point of these studs - you can re-install them into another tire.

Overall, there are many good tire choices out there, and have not heard specifically of any that sucked. I would attempt to choose a tire that is less likely to chunk badly (rear) or tear the side knobs off (front). Every rider rides a little differently, so use your past experience as guidance as well.

Over in Europe, they seem to use primarily Metzeler and Pirelli tires for studding (i would think where the tires are made may contribute to their choice, and I believe Pirelli owns Metzeler).

We have used the Dirt Shark rear AND front tires. Positive attributes of these tires is that they don't chunk, they have tall knobs for pushing snow, and the front side knobs are difficult to tear off. However, dirt sharks http://www.gbcmotorsports.com/products/dirt_shark.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; are difficult to find now, but any other tire with similar characteristics would make a good option.

A few specific options are:

Kenda Millville Sticky (K771 sticky) front, Carlsbad Sticky (K772 Sticky) rear
Kenda 257 (rear)
Michelin AC10, S12xc rear, M12xc
Metzeler Unicross (MT16)
Pirelli Scorpion XC Mid-Hard
Pirelli MX eXtra (soft terrain - stiff)
Cheng Shin C755 rear / C855 front (looks like Kenda 257d and Metzeller Unicross)
Bridgestone 201 or 401 (better for ice and snow)
Bridgestone 402/404 (better for mixed conditions)
IRC VE35F
Dunlop 952
Trelleborg 754 Tenmasters

In the end, if you make a "bad" choice on the tire (and there's probably no real "bad" choice), all you are out is what you spent on the tire and the hour or so it took ya to stud it. You can always remove the studs and put them in a new tire - so don't feel like you shouldn't take a chance trying out a "cheap" tire.

Cheers! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Last edited by crazy2wheeler on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

As I think you guys know, there is very little profit on these sales of studs (ie., I pay almost as much to get them here as I charge you guys).

The manufacturer requires payment in full before the order is shipped, and as you can see it adds up to a few thousand dollars (that I don't always have available to put up for everyone).

This is why I try to collect as much cash as possible up front. At this point, I've received payment from only a couple people:

Dave S - Front and Rear set
Howard - Front and Rear set
Jamie K - Front only
Tab S - Rear only
Darcy W - 3 x Rear
Dave D - Front and Rear set
Ken K - Front and Rear set
Doug K - Front and Rear set
Trent S - Front and Rear set
Chuck T - Front only
Dennis K - Front only
Mike R - Front and Rear set

I'm not able to take credit cards, so cheque, cash or on-line transfer (Interac) - see below:

How do I send an Interac Email Money Transfer?
All you need is an email address, access to online banking at a participating financial institution, and the email address of the person you are sending money to.

To send an Interac Email Money Transfer:
• Login to online banking
• Locate Transfer/Payment menu options
• Specify a recipient by entering their email address
• Fill in the Interac Email Money Transfer information (dollar amount, account from which to withdraw the funds, a security question that only the recipient will know the answer to and optional personal message)
• Follow instructions to confirm the information and complete the transfer
**All of the major banks and many credit unions support this**

I live in the NW if anyone wants to drop off a cheque or cash.

For those of you who need my address (to mail a cheque), or my email address to send an Interac payment, PM me or give me a call at 403.714.7440.

Thanks! :cheers:
Last edited by crazy2wheeler on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

UPDATE:

Hey guys, here is the update.

As mentioned payment to the manufacturer is required up front, thus I have to wait until I have collected enough funds to make payment to Best-Grip before they will ship.

When I receive an Interac money transfer, the funds are received into my account immediately. If I take a payment via PayPal, it takes 5-10days for the funds to be in my bank account, and when I deposit a cheque (the stoopid bank) holds the funds for 10 days before they can be accessed.

I generally send payment to the mfg via wire transfer (costs $80 but is immediate). However, adequate funds had not "cleared" in my account, so I sent a cheque (not draft as the funds had not yet cleared) to the mfg, as I figured they would receive this by the time the funds cleared in my account (which they did). I wasn't counting on was how long it would take for my cheque to clear their bank account. The have the ability to hold the delivery at customs until they say to release it (when my payment to them clears). I am told that this should happen this week (it can be up to 3 weeks for an international payment to clear, apparently..)

Anyway, so the time line is this (for example) - I receive an order, then 2 weeks later I receive a cheque, then 10 days later that cheque clears my account and then I can make payment to the supplier. So, although the shipping/delivery can take place inside of 7 days you can see why the process, from ordering with me to receiveing your studs can easily take over a month.

The price of $0.80/stud was a function of receiving payment up front (previously had only asked for 50% deposit, but for that price, I am now requiring payment in full up front).

Where I have had to finance the purchase of studs up front, and are essentiually selling out of "inventory", the price of studs will increase to $0.84/stud as of December 14th regardless of when the order was placed. Payment received before December 14th, price is $0.80/stud. Payment received after December 14th, $0.84/stud.

The following are the orders received and payment status:



So, everyone who hasn’t yet paid me, do it online or drop it off at my house today or tomorrow. If you are not able to do this, call me.

Derek
403.714.7440

Cheers,
Last edited by crazy2wheeler on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Studded Winter Tires ('09)

Post by crazy2wheeler »

@@(%)#$$@!!

Just spoke with UPS. Delivery was supposed to be yesterday and today. Customs is apparently backup up. All paperwork has been filed and they are just waiting for customs to release the shipment.

They have told me that even if it is released by the CRA by 5pm today, it is still a 2 day transit to Calgary and so the earliest they would arrive into my hands is the 29th. Sucky.

Just thought I'd let ya all know.
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