Shooting is getting out of control

[axel99]

If you are in McLean or the Ghost, watch out. Shooting into open cutblocks, legal and illegal trail heads has become very popular. The shooters tell me that they are watching for any OHV users, so it is safe for them to continue shooting in these areas that have no backstops.

[erniebearskin]

Witnessed lots of this yesterday as well. In other news apparently shotgun shells are now biodegradable

[cedric]

Yep I saw a large group shooting into the woods and shooting skeets across the road from Fisher West a few weeks ago. This was too close to Champion Lakes and Log Hopper for comfort. Somebody is going to die eventually from this kind of behavior.

[Braap791]

I am actually shocked they made it through the long weekend without shooting somebody at Ghost or Mclean. Even at Kook they were shooting into the cutblock right beside the singletrack . Unfortunately the only way they will actually clamp down on it or open a new public range is when somebody does get tagged.

[NoPlan]

I have to admit I shoot on crown land. While I always do research to see where it is safe to shoot I am often shocked by the motorists and how they treat their own safety. Such as riding up infront of pll with loaded firearms to yell at them. Always approach from behind and voice your valid concerns calmly and professionally.

Dont get me wrong. I am a motorcyclist as well and some shooters are down right stupid. However the vast majority of them are safe and do the best they can to ensure safety.

What we should do is lobby for the goverbment to stake out a peice of land dedicated to a free use gun range. Like how we have dedicated single track.

Remeber posts such as these are exactly like the hikers posts who are constantly lobbying to remove our ability to motorcycle.

I understand this post may upset some people but do not paint a whole group by the actions of a small select group of assholes. Instead lets all work together to share crown land for all uses.

With of course safety and education as our number 1 priority.

[takethebounce]

NoPlan - there are free public "gun ranges"near Calgary already. Ever been to Sibbald? I would much rather shoot responsibly on crown land than go back there again. Likely a much higher chance of an accident in these public areas based on what I saw.

But yes irresponsible gun owners and shooters are everywhere and Alberta seems to have a larger population of them. The best thing to do is if you witness something irresponsible is get as much info as you can like license plate numbers and call the RCMP. Sometimes its best to not challenge the misguided intelligence of someone waving around a firearm. No one wants to be "that guy" who calls in a complaint but the RCMP do follow up with reports like that and there have been times where someone has had multiple reports filed against them and the RCMP or CO's will escalate their response.

[axel99]

My intent was to post a warning to our community about some irresponsible and dangerous use of PLUZ lands for shooting activities. If there was ever a real user group conflict in the PLUZ this is one that needs to be on SRD's radar, checking insurance and registration is a silly waste of resources. I will be hounding every SRD officers I talk to that they need to access the risk of random shooting activities in multi-use areas and take action to aviod conflict and mitigate any unacceptable risks.

[Braap791]

I think the Sibbald range is closed again due to the constant pile of tvs and propane tanks used as targets. I hope that one of the hunting user groups gets out there and cleans it up. I know a few years ago people from an outdoorsmen forum got a big dumpster and cleaned the whole area up. Unfortunately they run into the same problem as people seem to use that place as anything goes land. It does not cost much to become a member of some of the better paid ranges. I know I pay about 150 a year for the windermere rod and gun club. Even if I do not go at all its a small price to pay to have a great place to shoot.

[350scott]

The government really should step in assist with setting up a proper range. As some of you may know I'm in the process of moving to Texas, otherwise known as the Land of Guns. Firearms are as common as hockey sticks in Calgary (I'm not joking, in fact they might be more common) and all you need to possess/purchase a firearm is proof of residency (i.e. drivers license). In the Houston area they have a large city park, (George Bush Park) similar to Nose Hill and within the park the city has partnered with a 3rd party to set up a professional range. I hear it's very popular and every time I bring up shooting, I'm quickly told to go to the range and people quickly list of ranges including this one. So long story short, for shooters it's probably similar to dirt bikers, give them somewhere safe and legal and the vast majority will do their thing safely and legally. Don't create reasonably opportunities for people to enjoy their hobbies legally, then they'll do it illegally.

[justinKX]

i was shooting at maclean, in the middle of a clearcut, into steep hills. one trail in sight, to our right, we weret shooting that direction anyway. we were being safe. there were 3 of us, 4 or 5 guns and some exploding targets. a few guys on bikes came over and started getting pissed off that we were shooting. it doesnt matter how safe you are, there will always be people not wanting you to shoot where they ride. i mean who wants to risk dying. however. they need to realize its public use crown land, and there are many other private places to ride, just as there are private places to shoot. thing is, people like not paying, or being in the woods and doing their own thing. not to mention there will never ever be enough ranges to contain the amount of people shooting.

the land is there for everyone to use, i use it for biking and shooting. im safe when i shoot. i cant speak for everyone, but thats what cops are for. they should be issuing unsafe usage tickets or whatever. nobody wants to get shot. and nobody wants to shoot anyone accidentally. some people just dont think. however i dont ever remember hearing about a OHV rider getting accidentally shot ever in the history of maclean... so maybe what one person deems to be unsafe is actually quite safe indeed.

lots of arguments either way, but bottom line is, its public use land and there will be idiot shooters same as there will be idiot campers and riders. in a province this big, there are enough areas to go where you dont have to deal with whatever it is you dont want to deal with.

[Jonny5]

There a lot of valid points here. I would like to add one experience I had.

I was riding along, doing my thing and having a blast ( at a mind boggling speed I might add) . Eventually the trail came to an end and we popped out into an open field. I was very shocked and surprised to see a table, guns, and a group of guys right in front of me and of course behind me as a series of targets. My immediate thoughts where...holly sludge!!! they are shooting right at me.

In hind sight, after some reflection it came apparent to me I was in no immediate danger. From my perspective, one minute I was trail riding and then next second I was in the middle of a self made gun range. From the perspective of the other people, I am sure it was not such a sudden and shocking event. I am sure they heard my 2T scream up that last hill and then come down the other side. For sure they heard me crash at that last tree, get up and then tell the whole story to my fellow riders. They would have heard my bike ride up the trail and then finally come out to the clearing. From their perspective, my arrival at the clearing was a long drawn out process of waiting, waiting until it is safe to shoot.

This has been my only encounter, so far....

[Dakota_c69]

I am sure they heard my 2T scream up that last hill and then come down the other side. For sure they heard me crash at that last tree, get up and then tell the whole story to my fellow riders. They would have heard my bike ride up the trail ....

I wonder how effective shooting style hearing protection is?? I know my bike is pretty quiet, mostly because I am afraid to twist the throttle too hard and ruin a perfectly good pair of pants.

I was riding along, doing my thing and having a blast ( at a mind boggling speed I might add)....

With no perceivable roost.

[FiveNine]

There are also gun users that use hearing protection.... can they still hear a bike coming from a distance?

[Bark]

What I don't understand about all of this is that we have 'designated trails'. Theoretically, everyone knows where we are.

My understanding is that shooters can be anywhere. So, everyone else needs to 'watch out' for shooters, they could be anywhere.

That doesn't seem right to me.

While its true that a motorcycle (like any motorized vehicle) could accidentally kill someone, its a very difficult thing to happen with super low probability. It isn't a weapon from any real perspective. A gun's purpose is to shoot bullets at a target. Generally speaking, if that target is breathing, its going to be injured very badly.

Why would any public group allow the use of guns in an uncontrolled way? I don't get it. Its just an accident waiting to happen.

[350scott]

While its true that a motorcycle (like any motorized vehicle) could accidentally kill someone, its a very difficult thing to happen with super low probability. It isn't a weapon from any real perspective. A gun's purpose is to shoot bullets at a target. Generally speaking, if that target is breathing, its going to be injured very badly.

Well, lets examine this statement. How many people have died riding motorcycles in or around Calgary so far this year? The number is 3 or 4 so far and it was much higher last year.

How many people have been accidentally shot by an otherwise legal gun owner or target shooter? Fairly certain that number is zero and has been for years.

So it is quite easy to make the argument that your sport is considerably more dangerous to life and limb than their sport. Be careful when you consider throwing other people under the bus.

Why would any public group allow the use of guns in an uncontrolled way? I don't get it. Its just an accident waiting to happen.

What public group are you referring to?

Canada is a democracy and a more or less free country. As such, gun owners have as much right to access crown land as anyone else. Gun owners have a much stricter set of rules to follow in order to own and use their private property than motorcycle owners do.

Again, be careful who you consider throwing under the bus. There are many groups out there who would gladly see your right to access these lands curtailed or even stopped. How willing do you think the gun owners will be to stand up for your right of access when you wouldn't stand up for theirs?

On the first statement, we all understand that Bark meant off-road motorcycle's, so the answer to deaths is 0. Now if you insist on using on-road motorcycles, then I think we need to ask how many people, other than the user, have been killed or seriously injured. I don't know, the answer, but I'd bet it's pretty close to 0 as well. Now thankfully, the number for firearm use on crown lands is probably 0 as well. All these numbers have probably all been close to 0 for quite a while. Therefore, my hypothesis is that this is an disagreement not worth having (realizing the irony of my comment).

With respect to the uncontrolled use of firearms, I'm not up on firearms lobbying, but I think we can agree there are people who advocate and/or believe firearm owners should be free to use them any way or any where they choose. I suspect (although I could be proven wrong) that these groups would also have similar views on off-road motorcycle usage (i.e. we should be able to ride any where we want any time). Fortunately, through the positive work of the RMDRA and others, we still have reasonably good designated places on public land to ride off-road motorcycles in Alberta. Unfortunately, from what I understand, reasonably good designated places on public land to use firearms do not exist in Alberta (again, I could be wrong). Somewhat unfortunately for me, being a lover of off-road motorcycle and not a firearms user, I just moved to Texas, where this firearms and off-road motorcycle balance appears to heavily tilted the other way.